Wings without ailerons or spoilers

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by erkki67, Jul 25, 2019.

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  1. Jul 25, 2019 #1

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    There are a few birds out there that are using twisting or rolling wings for the roll Control.

    There are birds like the ULX from Argentina,the Spratt103, the Mistral of Aviasud (biplane), the Scoutchel,Demoichel,Cubchel, Dragon of APEV (Daniel Dalby),

    They have all in common that they have at least a pair of upper wings for this type of roll control.

    If we would take the size and design of the later birds of Fritz, the Ranger to name it, how could such a rolling or twisting wing be implemented into a low wing aircraft?

    Even the Elevator could be mixed with this kind of wing….
     
  2. Jul 25, 2019 #2

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    I would ike to use wing warping on my back-burned flying wing. Flutter is a big concern. To minimise that, the warping section (outer half in my case) would need to twist about around the 1/4 chord and be balanced. How to twist I haven't worked out quite yet.
     
  3. Jul 25, 2019 #3

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Had an r/c glider with wingerons, flew nicely, but the bending loads for a full size aircraft would require a pretty heavy structure.
     
  4. Jul 25, 2019 #4

    jedi

    jedi

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    Wing warping like the Wrights used puts the greatest AOA change at the tip. This creates a large amount of induced drag. Wing warping is not a bad idea but it is better to move the AOA increase inboard from the wingtip.

    You can change AOA of the whole wing as in the Sprat or even control the root AOA and let the tip free float as in a WSC. Lots of different ways to replace the ailerons.

    You might consider variable sweep at the wing tip rather than variable AOA. I think that is more along the lines of how birds do it. More sweep makes less lift, less span, more drag, less adverse yaw.

    Swept tips can also be used for trim similar to flaperons with the benefit that trim and drag reduction work in synergy as opposed to the conflicting characteristics of flaperons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  5. Jul 25, 2019 #5

    BJC

    BJC

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    Has REVAN made any progress toward a proof of concept of his proposed roll control tips?


    BJC
     
  6. Jul 25, 2019 #6

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

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    He is working on it although a new grand daughter AKA "life" is somewhat in the way. She is working on becoming a swimmer. Although business is closed swim fin is still progressing.

    We have considered a couple of aircraft modifications but have decided that it is best to just go for the full deal. See post # 7 on the Aft delta tandems and the people who love them thread.

    Thanks for asking. I assume you are at KOSH. I miss it. Please give reports. I see ICON has completed their 100th aircraft. How is their display. It would be real interesting to see a financial report. Ask if they are still interested in new investors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  7. Jul 25, 2019 #7

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    Increasing sweep moves the lift outboard.
     
  8. Jul 26, 2019 #8

    jedi

    jedi

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    "Increasing sweep moves the lift outboard" on the swept portion of the tip, but total lift on the swept portion is reduced. It is intended that the hinge angle changes AOA (or washout of the overall wing) as a function of sweep angle.

    Please confirm that my addition to your quote is consistent with you intended comment.
     

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