Wing walker and pilot killed

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Pops

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I worked as a high rigger setting building steel in the late 60's and early 70's. There were so many killed that for every hour on the job it would have been far safer in Vietnam. Have hung steel up to 1280'. Most of the people are Native Americans or part NA. I was raised by my Cherokee Grandfather.
Do a u-tube search on free climbing radio and TV towers. I used to do that also. Dan
 

SVSUSteve

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Pops said:
Have hung steel up to 1280'.
So does the clanking sound of your huge pair of brass balls get annoying after a certain point? There isn't enough money to get me to climb that high EVER.

bmcj said:
... or medical issue? Not that age means anything, but the pilot appeared to be somewhat aged.
Possible of course but not very likely. Despite all the fear mongering by the FAA about the need for medical certification, we still have a level of safety (based on the percentage of crashes caused by unequivocal medical issues) pretty much equivalent to the much looser and more practical medical requirements of a personal driver's license. I will talk to the coroner over there and see if they found anything at autopsy. I have dealt with them previously in the course of my research so it shouldn't be hard to find out if there was anything going on medically.
 

Pops

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After 50', makes no difference except the amount of time it takes to hit the ground. Dan

So does the clanking sound of your huge pair of brass balls get annoying after a certain point? There isn't enough money to get me to climb that high EVER.


Possible of course but not very likely. Despite all the fear mongering by the FAA about the need for medical certification, we still have a level of safety (based on the percentage of crashes caused by unequivocal medical issues) pretty much equivalent to the much looser and more practical medical requirements of a personal driver's license. I will talk to the coroner over there and see if they found anything at autopsy. I have dealt with them previously in the course of my research so it shouldn't be hard to find out if there was anything going on medically.
 

SVSUSteve

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After 50', makes no difference except the amount of time it takes to hit the ground.
Yes and no. There are a lot of documented cases of survival from falls (including a number without serious injury) from above 50' . A lot of those were the things that originally drove researchers like Hugh de Haven to question the validity of the "Human beings can't survive more than ___ G" things that were used to put forth low end designs (which persist in the aviation world to this day). Here's the link to de Haven's classic article on the subject in case anyone is interested: Mechanical analysis of survival in falls from heights of fifty to one hundred and fifty feet -- De Haven 6 (1): 62 -- Injury Prevention

I will freely admit, while I love skydiving and flying, I can't go up in the St. Louis Gateway Arch because of how much it sways. The only training I ever turned down when I was a volunteer firefighter was the cell tower rescue course. Now you all know my Kryptonite....swaying structures. LOL
 

Nickathome

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Yes and no. There are a lot of documented cases of survival from falls (including a number without serious injury) from above 50' . A lot of those were the things that originally drove researchers like Hugh de Haven to question the validity of the "Human beings can't survive more than ___ G" things that were used to put forth low end designs (which persist in the aviation world to this day). Here's the link to de Haven's classic article on the subject in case anyone is interested: Mechanical analysis of survival in falls from heights of fifty to one hundred and fifty feet -- De Haven 6 (1): 62 -- Injury Prevention

I will freely admit, while I love skydiving and flying, I can't go up in the St. Louis Gateway Arch because of how much it sways. The only training I ever turned down when I was a volunteer firefighter was the cell tower rescue course. Now you all know my Kryptonite....swaying structures. LOL
No need to be ashamed of your Kryptonite friend, we've all got our phobias. In my case, heights, swaying objects, etc don't phase me. However put me near murky water, especially murky saltwater and tell me to get in and I will tell you to go to hell. No way will I ever swim in murky water.....
 

Pops

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Unless you hit something soft or at an angle to slow your impact speed, you are dead. Worked with a man that fell 50' and landed on concrete and just had a broken leg and hip, but he went threw 2 oak scafford boards slowing him down about 10' above the concrete. Worked with a man for a year on a stack that fell 300' and he hit several steel cables on the way down, just a lot of body parts it the bottom. Worked with man that fell 200' on concrete, etc,etc. Do a Google search of "Willow Island Disaster" . I just finished a repair on one of the older boilers a couple days before and knew most all the men that got killed. Building a large coal fired power plant, there used to be 15+ or so killed on each job. After all of those years, I still have nightmares, guess they don't stop. Dan




Yes and no. There are a lot of documented cases of survival from falls (including a number without serious injury) from above 50' . A lot of those were the things that originally drove researchers like Hugh de Haven to question the validity of the "Human beings can't survive more than ___ G" things that were used to put forth low end designs (which persist in the aviation world to this day). Here's the link to de Haven's classic article on the subject in case anyone is interested: Mechanical analysis of survival in falls from heights of fifty to one hundred and fifty feet -- De Haven 6 (1): 62 -- Injury Prevention

I will freely admit, while I love skydiving and flying, I can't go up in the St. Louis Gateway Arch because of how much it sways. The only training I ever turned down when I was a volunteer firefighter was the cell tower rescue course. Now you all know my Kryptonite....swaying structures. LOL
 

bmcj

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Now you all know my Kryptonite....swaying structures. LOL
I guess all you need is wings to get past that. A bird caught my attention the other day due to his incessant and loud squawking. I looked up to find him perched on the small peak tip branch of a skinny 60' Cypress tree. It was extremely windy and the tree was swaying like mad, swinging the bird wildly on his perch by maybe 10' each way (and quite forcefully). When the wind would quiet down, so would the bird. Wind came back and so did the squawking, but the bird seemed happy to stay up there at the mercy of the wind.
 

bmcj

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Possible of course but not very likely. Despite all the fear mongering by the FAA about the need for medical certification, we still have a level of safety...
I agree. Age by itself is only a number and is meaningless when it comes to flight safety (at least in terms of blanket statements applied to everyone). I lean more toward simple pilot error in this case, but you have to be open to all possibilities if you are doing a proper investigation.
 

SVSUSteve

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I agree. Age by itself is only a number and is meaningless when it comes to flight safety (at least in terms of blanket statements applied to everyone). I lean more toward simple pilot error in this case, but you have to be open to all possibilities if you are doing a proper investigation.
Right but I put a mechanical failure ahead of a medical issue almost always because it is simply a more common cause. I mean, I exclude nothing until the evidence rules it out but I think the FAA tends to make a bigger deal out of the medical issue than is justified by the statistics.

Unless you hit something soft or at an angle to slow your impact speed, you are dead.
Funny you should mention that...not that I am trying to argue with you on this or anything, but I found something else that is kind of interesting. I came across another "How in the **** did they survive?" article tonight while looking for something else: Survival following a vertical free fall from 300 feet: The crucial role of body position to impact surface A two hundred foot fall onto a flat rock surface and then she bounced or rolled off and fell another 100 ft. Estimated impact speed was something like 75 mph.

The full article is available at the link but here's the abstract:


Scand J Trauma Resusc Emerg Med. 2011 Oct 25;19:63. doi: 10.1186/1757-7241-19-63.
[h=1]Survival following a vertical free fall from 300 feet: the crucial role of body position to impact surface.[/h]Weckbach S, Flierl MA, Blei M, Burlew CC, Moore EE, Stahel PF.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]We report the case of a 28-year old rock climber who survived an "unsurvivable" injury consisting of a vertical free fall from 300 feet onto a solid rock surface. The trauma mechanism and injury kinetics are analyzed, with a particular focus on the relevance of body positioning to ground surface at the time of impact. The role of early patient transfer to a level 1 trauma center, and "damage control" management protocols for avoiding delayed morbidity and mortality in this critically injured patient are discussed.
 

SVSUSteve

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No need to be ashamed of your Kryptonite friend, we've all got our phobias. In my case, heights, swaying objects, etc don't phase me. However put me near murky water, especially murky saltwater and tell me to get in and I will tell you to go to hell. No way will I ever swim in murky water.....
I still have a difficult time diving in murky water because in my younger days, I helped fish a grandfather and granddaughter out of a smashed up mobile home that had (along with several others) been tossed into a large retention pond by a tornado. After that, I pretty much stopped diving anywhere with poor visibility because I always have this recurring fear not of running into something large and toothy but seeing a battered child's hand come out of the murk at me like I saw that day. It was the last in a series of very bad child recoveries I worked as a volunteer SAR diver. As Pops said, the nightmares never really stop.
 

bmcj

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Funny you should mention that...not that I am trying to argue with you on this or anything, but I found something else that is kind of interesting. I came across another "How in the **** did they survive?" article tonight while looking for something else: Survival following a vertical free fall from 300 feet: The crucial role of body position to impact surface A two hundred foot fall onto a flat rock surface and then she bounced or rolled off and fell another 100 ft. Estimated impact speed was something like 75 mph.

The full article is available at the link but here's the abstract:
The narrative left me uncertain as to the nature of the first impact:

She then fell a total of 300 feet, with a first impact at 200 feet onto a flat rock surface, and a further fall for about 100 feet. Based on this falling height, the velocity at the time of impact is estimated around 75-80 mph.
Was it a glancing blow on a flat inclined surface or a landing on a flat level surface followed by a bounce or roll off the surface? Do you know Steve?
 

Pops

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One time I fell 18' and landed on my feet with the left leg stiff on concrete, went on down on my left hip and back and bounced. I was by myself, had to crawl about 50' through a large water hole to my Van and drive to get help. In a cast from my hip to my toes 2 times for 6 months each time. Most all of my bones from my hip to and including my toes broken and Lots of metal in my left leg and bone grafts, and a limp when I walk. Came close to breaking my back, still have trouble with it. Dan
 

bmcj

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...used to leap tall buildings in a single bound! The trip up was not bad, but the back half was a bear!
 
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