Why Gas Engines Are Far From Dead - Biggest EV Problems

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cheapracer

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That must be why EVs are lined up in droves, to wait a long time, at recharging stations on long weekends.

EVs make up 0.6% of new car sales.
Sure you've seen them, but 95% of EV owners 95% of the time, charge at home. Arrive home, 10 seconds to plug in, leave in the morning, 10 seconds to plug out every 3 or 4th day for most normal commuters.

Over a year you lose less time than all those 5 to 6 minutes it takes to gas up. It's just a fact.

Before I actually owned an EV, I was head of the class for cynical EV jokes also, like an EV at the 24 hours of LeMans that races for the first hour, charges for 22 hours, then races the last hour ..... but now I will never own a gas vehicle again for my private use.

EVs are steadily increasing in sales constantly, add to that numbers of Nations have pledged no more fossil fuel cars from 2030, not sure I agree with that, but it's also a fact.

I have driven my Tesla Model S-70D
I also have a 2015 Tesla S-70D, delivered early 2016, and now 103,000 kms in it. I will take a different position to you, very cold days show a considerable and annoying decrease in range, and you know very well that a warning message flashes up on the screen warning you it will happen that cold day.

I also own a Geely Emgrand EV and BYD E5 EV, 55,000 kms on each, same story on very cold days.


Future airliners that aren’t burning fossils fuels into the atmosphere will be designed to land at MTOW.
... which will require considerable additional weight, and there's your paradox.

Basically ain't going to happen, I suspect hydrogen will be in some use by around 2030 based on current knowledge, which could change at anytime, or not.
 

Tony Williams

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... which will require considerable additional weight, and there's your paradox.

Basically ain't going to happen, I suspect hydrogen will be in some use by around 2030 based on current knowledge, which could change at anytime, or not.
Hydrogen is the “easy choice” for airplanes when considering weight and refueling time, but unfortunately neither technology (H2 or purely EV) is ready for a Boeing 747. Neither was the 1908 Wright Flyer technology with a reciprocating benzine burning engine ready for a B747.

I suspect a purely bio / synthetic fuel of some type replaces jet fuel, but that will need to have a lot more research to get the price down.

I have no idea when or if large commercial electric airplanes switch to electricity. Maybe a nuclear electrical generation idea? The plane can fly 3000 people for 5 years without refueling?
 

Tony Williams

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I also have a 2015 Tesla S-70D, delivered early 2016, and now 103,000 kms in it. I will take a different position to you, very cold days show a considerable and annoying decrease in range, and you know very well that a warning message flashes up on the screen warning you it will happen that cold day.

I also own a Geely Emgrand EV and BYD E5 EV, 55,000 kms on each, same story on very cold days.
My Model S had about 130,000 / 208,000 kms when I sold it. The little green snow flake symbol is just telling you that the battery is below XX temperature (maybe 50F / 10C?).

I have a new Model X-LR with the Model 3 front drive motor. My wife has the Model 3-LR. We should get a Model Y sometime in the next few weeks. I test drove it a few days ago, and rode in a prototype Model Y on its unveiling day.
 

Tony Williams

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That must be why EVs are lined up in droves, to wait a long time, at recharging stations on long weekends.

EVs make up 0.6% of new car sales.
Yes, the success of Tesla, in particular, has lead to occasional lines at a few high demand locations for their Superchargers. Much like the regular lines that I see at Costco to get petroleum products for a few pennies per gallon cheaper.

Your comment about only “0.6%” reminds of many of the folks who thought COVID-19 was “fake news” because only some small percentage of people had gotten it in Jan, Feb, and March 2020. Now, with about 1.5 million infections and nearly 100,000 deaths in the USA alone, in just a few short months, it’s got most people’s attention.

Just 8 years ago this month, Tesla produced zero cars (their Roadster was built 2008-2011 at just 2500 units total). Today, Tesla has sold over one million cars, since June 2012 when they produced the first Model S. Last month, Tesla Model 3 was the number one most sold car in UK. It’s consistently in the top 20 in the USA.

If you don’t like EVs, I have bad news for you in the future.
 
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Topaz

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Moderator Note: Gentlemen, let's please remain on-topic and refrain from trying to convince everyone else that EV's are/are not the Best/Worst Thing Ever, and a workable/unworkable option for some, maybe many, people. Nobody is going to win that argument, no matter how good you think your position is. It's a holy war, and one that won't solve anything. If an EV works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you, also great. Ultimately, the market is going to decide the big-picture argument for you, whether you like it or not.

The thread is discussing problems with EV propulsion and practical solutions to those problems. Let's please stay on that topic. If you can steer it towards aviation usage of electric propulsion, so much the better.

Thank you.
 
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stanislavz

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Maybe hydrogen fuel cell technology can improve to point it overtakes lithium battery technology.
Forget hydrogen. Methane ( Natural gas) in adsorbed storage is way safer and cheaper. And as clean burning as H2 could be..

But it is not fancy at all. So no big tech up here. ANG is for ten year around, build ed/tested from off the shelf components (aluminium tank for 50 bar max pressure + activated carbon ).

Who, except ofme was aware of this technology, but knows about hydrogen ?

And, yes, you can run fuel cell on NG too.
 
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Forget hydrogen. Methane ( Natural gas) in adsorbed storage is way safer and cheaper. And as clean burning as H2 could be..

But it is not fancy at all. So no big tech up here. ANG is for ten year around, build ed/tested from off the shelf components (aluminium tank for 50 bar max pressure + activated carbon ).

Who, except ofme was aware of this technology, but knows about hydrogen ?

And, yes, you can run fuel cell on NG too.
ANG sounds interesting. The biggest question I have about lighter than air fuels such as hydrogen or natural gas for fuel cells is how unintended leaks will be prevented in storage. With Ev's or electric aircraft these vehicles will be stored inside and fuel leaks could present a serious explosion risk when stored in conventional structures. Electrical wiring in these types of buildings is not zone classified, buildings were you would currently find these gasses in the pressures and volumes that would be contained in these systems right now will be at least zone 2 or div 2.

I think cars and aircraft will have different risks cars tend to be neglected over time (increased probability of a potential incident) while aircraft are typically meticulously maintained (at least by relative standards) however aircraft will generally carry a much larger fuel load (increased severity of a potential incident).

These are clearly not insurmountable hurdles its just something that I deal with in my professional life that nobody mentions when they discuss fuel cells.
 

dog

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there have been atempts to run fuel cells with gasoline,the main problem is that gasoline is chemicaly uncertain,and hydroscopic,so typical catalist poisoning.
if a petro fuel cell worked,the combination of energy density,efficient conversion and ease of refueling,would be very hard to beat.
at the other end are "super capacitors" which having no moving parts are non chemical and totaly solid state, are very atractive for durability and reliability, obviously the current limitations
rule them out for primary power for an aircraft,
early days yet.
 

BBerson

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Propane is a good hydrogen carrier. Could be "reformed" into hydrogen.
The commercial fiberglass propane tanks are relatively simple to make. Could be part of the tubular wing spar.
Propane delivery trucks are common around here, to home or airport.
 

dog

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propane is also chemicaly uncertain,and speculating ,I think that the choice of pure hydrogen is driven by the problems of maintaining
the catalitic reaction in a fuel cell.
there is another device called a thermal electric generator,burns a fuel at a very specific temperature in a quarts tube that has a tuned pv
blanket around that, was a company building them in alberta, low key, power for sail boats etc
vanished, claimed better than 50%
 

Dan Thomas

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Natural gas and propane both contain carbon, which means emitting CO2 upon combustion. I thought we were trying to find ways around that?
 

dog

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And water vapour is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2... but it doesn't have the bad rep that CO2 does.
Yes ,but on the plus side, water vapor makes air
more buoyant,better thermals for all.
 

PMD

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ANG sounds interesting. The biggest question I have about lighter than air fuels such as hydrogen or natural gas for fuel cells is how unintended leaks will be prevented in storage. With Ev's or electric aircraft these vehicles will be stored inside and fuel leaks could present a serious explosion risk when stored in conventional structures. cells.
As Stanislav said: ADSORBED hydrogen. Copious quantities of hydrogen can be adsorbed in nickel metal hydrides, (used in batteries now) but still a very heavy way to store. At least with pressures of only a few ATU it does not need much more container than propane. Profane is, IMHO, one of the most dangerous fuels on the planet because it is all around us and so darn easy to get a very explosive mixture in a very large volume (as is the same case with just H2).
 
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