Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
980
Location
KTHA
Electric is here to stay and will only get better over the years to come - Trillions of $ are being poured into research for the goose that will lay the golden egg, Holy Grail..... of battery tech so you know if the big money people are in it, it will happen...
Nobody is saying it won't possibly happen someday. It's just a question as to when and in what way. And although trillions may be getting poured into renewable energy, only a tiny slice of that is going toward electric aircraft. That actually tracks with historic development though, as aircraft engine development has always been a follow-on of earthbound engine development.

...We will need to stick with 30-45min flights until the next gen batteries arrive.
And therein lies the rub. Pilots for the most part aren't going to adopt with that limitation. The people who invest all that money know there has to be a market for the product in order for them to earn that money back. That doesn't happen without pilots buying electric airplanes. Simply having the technology doesn't cut the mustard. There has to be a market big enough to recoup the costs.

Someone mentioned the market will simply be forced into it by legislative fiat. History tells us again and again that such actions only destroys markets, not creates them. Unfortunately I think with current events, it's quite possible we will see something like that fairly soon. It will be the destruction of private aviation as we know it. Many pilots would simply stop flying altogether rather than being forced to fly something they don't want. The involvement of government will drive up costs as it always does, so a huge number of pilots will stop flying because they can barely afford it now. Having both of those groups out of the market will drive prices up even further because the unit cost will have to go up to cover manufacturing and development costs, along with the profit those investors were needing. That drives even more out of the market, and the cycle continues. Economics is not a simple proposition, and it's affected by a myriad of factors. But again, simply having the technology does no good if the market isn't there, and trying to strictly control a market by governmental force does nothing but guarantee that market will be destroyed, except for the very rich, which we ain't.

...I vaguely remember when friends in RC flying started to go into electric -- they were so happy with 5 mins of flight not having deal with crap ICE motors with15mins of flight,,, something like that...
There will undoubtedly be some early adopters who are happy with short duration flights. But the majority of pilots won't want that. So the real question lies in when the technology will improve to the point that most pilots are willing to take the plunge. That will give the investors the return on investment they seek. The fact that people are investing money on the technology now is a sign that some think it will be soon. Others disagree, or are at least somewhat skeptical. That hardly makes them flat earth people, so I'm not sure you really know what that means.
 
Last edited:

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
980
Location
KTHA
Awsome.
The market speaks....
Wow. 70 electric planes compared to an unknown lesser number of non-electric planes, maybe only two or three. What a historic landmark. How much of this is the US market? Private aviation in Europe has been decimated by government control, so it's really the US market that will make the difference for investors.
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
8,941
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Electric is here to stay and will only get better over the years to come -
Flat earth people can rest at ease knowing that we already know your crazy and that nothing has change for you 😂
There is more than just one type of "flat-earth'er", "science denier", and "un-enlightened thinker". Some of us Neanderthal knuckle-draggers have the gall to ask where all those batteries come from, and what the battery manufacturing process does to the environment.

EF, do you know what was the largest and most widespread positive revolution in environmental and public health, in the history of mankind?

The internal combustion engine powered automobile.

It allowed major population centers to not have tons and tons of toxic, disease-spreading, maggot-infested horse manure ankle deep on the streets and sidewalks. This made a large reduction in Dysentery, vermin-borne disease,, hygeine, etc. in the world's cities. I believe it reduced the amount of greenhouse gases compared to the previous method of transportation.

New technology is great, there's a reason for much of it. Old technology is not automatically obsolete until ALL of the factors and ALL of the costs are fairly addressed..
 
Last edited:

dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
428
Huff puff puff huff,there is no way that gasoline power general aviation is going to face some kind of "commie" legislative shut down to further low carbon electric.
Though should something go amiss with the last tanker carrying tetra ethyl lead and its insurance costs make it impossible to continue,or some unrelated issue with lead
make the press ,them ya leaded fuel could be
done,the press is already realy realy bad,and it
is only the government mandated inclusion in
fuel that is keeping it available.
Ocean going shipping is adopting all kinds of less poluting fuels, LNG,amonia,bio,all in diesels,fletner rotors for wind to shaft power,and of course electric.
Heavy trucks are going electric.
And granted half of the start ups are scams,or
vapor ware virtue signaling to the sheeple.
 

poormansairforce

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
1,122
Location
Just an Ohioan
So I just sketched a smooooth eCelera 500L (got rid of those ugly air-scoops 'cause it's MagniX electric ), and guess what....it looks sensationally-smooth.......it's just gotta' be the future!
500 miles, 5 pax, 300 kts, 20:1 Glide, 280 HP eMotor.
Elon, world's No 1 "Futurist" would go for it like a shot!
Try doing a few sketches yourself, and you'll see what I mean!
No offense but that thing looks like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man and Mrs Bobbitt had an altercation!
 

Starjumper7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
260
Location
Ecuador
Historically, fuel has been heavily subsidized in Ecuador for over 4 decades. In 2019, when the government threatened to end the subsidies, there were violent protests and the government backed down, agreeing to keep them. It was a big deal. More here:Ecuador Reaches Fuel Subsidy Deal To End Violent Protests

Are you saying that within the last 17 months the government has changed this 40 year old "stupid games" program (your words) and fuel prices are now entirely set by the market in Ecuador? If so, bravo on this very recent development.
Yes, it is recent. President Moreno, the recent socialist puppet, dropped the subsidies suddenly as part of a deal to receive a giant loan, which the country did not need (most of it ends up in the pockets of a few anyway), and the people reacted with their usual: Blocking major highways.

Then, when the world economy went to hell due to the covid brainwashing games, the price of fuel went so low that it didn't need subsidies, so they removed them. The price actually dropped a bit lower than it had been with subsidies. After that, they set the price of fuel at cost, no more subsidies, it has risen a little above what it had been, but the gradual increase doesn't bother people.
 

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
5,914
The internal combustion engine powered automobile.

It allowed major population centers to not have tons and tons of toxic, disease-spreading, maggot-infested horse manure ankle deep on the streets and sidewalks. This made a large reduction in Dysentery, vermin-borne disease,, hygeine, etc. in the world's cities. I believe it reduced the amount of greenhouse gases compared to the previous method of transportation.
And natural gas replaced coal, cleaning up the air in the cities. It was filthy before the gas.
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
14,926
Location
Port Townsend WA
I heard on the news last night that electric car owners are trading them in for gas because of the long charge time.
 

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,198
Location
US
I heard on the news last night that electric car owners are trading them in for gas because of the long charge time.
I saw that. Approx 20% of electric vehicle owners in Calif go back to gas cars due to charging hassles.
 

Dusan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
149
Location
Canada
I heard on the news last night that electric car owners are trading them in for gas because of the long charge time.
I will never go back to gas. Surely charging takes time, but for me it takes no time as at charge time I'm sleeping anyway. It takes only a couple of seconds to plug it in when arriving home. Actually it saves me time as I don't need to go every week to the gas station and fiddle with the pump, a thing I hate to do at -4°F here in Canada. Every morning - the car is ready to go, heated up, warm and cosy, what more do you need?

When me and my wife drove from California to Ontario, with the Tesla, I didn't find driving it to be more of a hassle than when doing the same trip with the Honda. Actually driving the Tesla was more fun. Surely, we needed to stop to charge, but the 'charge time' was spend having lunch, dinner or shopping. You need some more planning, but that was it, not a real inconvenience.
 

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,198
Location
US

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,198
Location
US
Yes, it is recent.
....
The price actually dropped a bit lower than it had been with subsidies. After that, they set the price of fuel at cost, no more subsidies, it has risen a little above what it had been, but the gradual increase doesn't bother people.
Thanks for the update. Congratulations. Hopefully, it sticks.
Oil production is a very important industry in Ecuador. As the oil company is state owned, well, you know how these things can go.
 

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
5,914
In the US in 2020, concerning all-electric vehicles:

More here:Was 2020 The Year That EVs Hit it Big? Almost, But Not Quite - Inside Climate News

The buzz about electric cars far exceeds their significance as a mode of actual transportation.
Hype surrounds an awful lot of stuff and fools a lot of people, especially younger folks who haven't had decades of exposure to it and the subsequent disillusionment once they find out it was nothing more than hype. Real journalism is nearly dead; most so-called "journalists" now largely invent or vastly overstate stuff, or they omit facts crucial to a balanced approach. They get paid for writing stories that attract readers or viewers so their bosses can make advertising revenue, and the lure of money compromises most of them.
 

patrickrio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
278
I think there may be more truth now than ever before. More truth than you could ever read or see, so it is hard to find the relevant truth. But that is the minor problem.

The real problem is that truth is also drowning somewhere in 99.99% twaddle.

So you end up having to become an expert at writing analysis while speed skimming to pick the needles of truth out of the haystacks of hackery.

The truth ends up being so hard to actually find and recognize that it FEELS rare.
 
Last edited:

tspear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
833
Location
Outside Boston
Wow. 70 electric planes compared to an unknown lesser number of non-electric planes, maybe only two or three. What a historic landmark. How much of this is the US market? Private aviation in Europe has been decimated by government control, so it's really the US market that will make the difference for investors.
111 Total was stated in the article. With 70 Electric. That means 41 ICE.

Tim
 
Top