# Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range

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#### Dan Thomas

##### Well-Known Member
As near as I can tell ,all of the efforts towards a
an electric aircraft are hedging there bets because of the critical scruteny and that the teck is moving so fast that there is a danger of commiting to old and orphaned non competitive teck.
The market determines what works. If an electric aircraft manufacturer can't make an airplane that has practical range and a reasonable charging time, it isn't going to sell well. The market is always willing to buy new stuff that is an improvement. How many old flip-phones do we see people using? Or old CRT televisions? Or corded power tools? Or incandescent flashlights and carbon-cell batteries? Or desktop computers with 640K of RAM?

We don't have to worry about old, non-competitive technology. The market doesn't want it. It can't compete. So far, the current crop of electric airplanes aren't competitive. Only if governments get involved and outlaw internal-combustion engines will we see more electric vehicles, and that won't end well at all. Outlawing current useful technology does not make newer technologies any better. It's like trying repeal the laws of physics. Doesn't work.

#### henryk

##### Well-Known Member
old, non-competitive technology.
=today exists some methodes of energy exerting from calm enviroment=
with transform them into electricity or thermic energy.

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#### Rhino

##### Well-Known Member
But this is precisely what you have today in the USA, with the colossal tax breaks for the oil industry. USA subsidises its fossil fuel industry by a huge margin, so that the retail price for fuel is half that of EU, where a US gallon of 100LL averages $12. I fully expect some iteration(s) of that to happen. But this is precisely what you have today in the USA, with the colossal tax breaks for the oil industry. USA subsidises its fossil fuel industry by a huge margin, so that the retail price for fuel is half that of EU, where a US gallon of 100LL averages$12.
In Ecuador, a gallon of regular is less than $2 and it is neither subsidized nor taxed. No stupid games like in the North. #### Vigilant1 ##### Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter In Ecuador, a gallon of regular is less than$2 and it is neither subsidized nor taxed. No stupid games like in the North.
Historically, fuel has been heavily subsidized in Ecuador for over 4 decades. In 2019, when the government threatened to end the subsidies, there were violent protests and the government backed down, agreeing to keep them. It was a big deal. More here:Ecuador Reaches Fuel Subsidy Deal To End Violent Protests

Are you saying that within the last 17 months the government has changed this 40 year old "stupid games" program (your words) and fuel prices are now entirely set by the market in Ecuador? If so, bravo on this very recent development.

BJC

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
=today exists some methodes of energy exerting from calm enviroment=
with transform them into electricity or thermic energy.

Henryk, I am sorry but this is absolute nonsense, and has no place in the discussion of realistic, proven IC and electric motors.

#### henryk

##### Well-Known Member
electric motors.
-electric motor +ELECTRIC ENERGY...

f.e.=100 kW *h =(10 kg) +(500 kg)...

today problem is NOT motor/controller , BUT electric energy source !

PS=in 10^3 l "calm air" is accumulated 150000 J kinetic energy !
(in tornadolike vortex we can exert them !!!)

for comparation=

3000 l water flow with 10 m/s speed generate the same 150 kJ kinetic energy !

BTW= what is maximal speed of cold wind ?

=circa 1800 km/h (500 m/s !)

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#### henryk

##### Well-Known Member
and has no place in the discussion of realistic, proven IC and electric motors.
"
Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range
"
realistic, proven IC and electric motors. =???

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
realistic, proven IC and electric motors. =???
“Build it and (if it works) they will come with money to buy it.”

BJC

#### henryk

##### Well-Known Member
(if it works)
-I can send short MP4 video of artifical tornado,via e-mail...

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I can send short MP4 video of actual tornado, dancing bear, sinking ship, and chimpanzee playing piano.

Tornado, vortex oscillation, etc. have nothing to do with why battery powered aircraft will or will not have significant range.

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
"
Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range
"
realistic, proven IC and electric motors. =???
Please calm down , henryk . Everyone here, likes to fly ; there is
no need to yell at us, just to get a point across !

Bille

#### ElectricFlyer

HBA Supporter
Electric is here to stay and will only get better over the years to come - Trillions of $are being poured into research for the goose that will lay the golden egg, Holy Grail..... of battery tech so you know if the big money people are in it, it will happen. We will need to stick with 30-45min flights until the next gen batteries arrive. I vaguely remember when friends in RC flying started to go into electric -- they were so happy with 5 mins of flight not having deal with crap ICE motors with15mins of flight,,, something like that. Flat earth people can rest at ease knowing that we already know your crazy and that nothing has change for you Safe landings to all #### EzyBuildWing ##### Well-Known Member So I just sketched a smooooth eCelera 500L (got rid of those ugly air-scoops 'cause it's MagniX electric ), and guess what....it looks sensationally-smooth.......it's just gotta' be the future! 500 miles, 5 pax, 300 kts, 20:1 Glide, 280 HP eMotor. Elon, world's No 1 "Futurist" would go for it like a shot! Try doing a few sketches yourself, and you'll see what I mean! #### BJC ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Trillions of$ are being poured into research for the goose that will lay the golden egg, Holy Grail..... of battery tech so you know if the big money people are in it, it will happen.
A functional fusion reactor has been 30 years in the future for the past 60 years. Once there is a functional laboratory-scale reactor, a power-level reactor will be another 30 years in the future, and an operable electric power generation plant will be operable about 30 years after environmental permitting is issued. Last environmental power generation permitting that I was involved in was renewing the licensees of existing hydroelectric generating stations. Those only took 6 years.

BJC

#### Dan Thomas

##### Well-Known Member
A functional fusion reactor has been 30 years in the future for the past 60 years. Once there is a functional laboratory-scale reactor, a power-level reactor will be another 30 years in the future, and an operable electric power generation plant will be operable about 30 years after environmental permitting is issued. Last environmental power generation permitting that I was involved in was renewing the licensees of existing hydroelectric generating stations. Those only took 6 years.

BJC
Yup. Exactly.

We're not quite old enough to remember the vast efforts to turn lead into gold. Some people laughed at the alchemists, but it turns out they were just using the wrong techniques. Even now it doesn't pay. Fact or Fiction?: Lead Can Be Turned into Gold

There are also trillions being poured into solar panels and wind turbines, yet the raw and inconvenient numbers show that they will never meet the current needs, never mind future needs. But people still throw money at them. Maybe someone WILL come up with a battery ten times (minimum) better than what we have now, but we have to wait and see. Making forecasts without knowing the chemistry and the roadblocks is unwise. The dishonest hype put out by the media also misleads the people. Remember the breathless Popular Mechanics articles about flying cars in every garage by 1975 or something?