# Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range

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#### WINGITIS

##### Well-Known Member
I've never paid much attention to hang-gliding etc, But I would suspect they have the equivalent of newbies ski slopes, nice shallow hillsides with not too much slope but placed where the prevailing breeze gives enough ridge lift to learn but where they can't really go so far up as to end up dead on losing lift unless they REALLY muck it up.

You don't take a newbie skiier and drop them from a helicopter at the top of the Remarkables, there're nice flattish bits close to the ski-lifts for that.

Wouldn't it make sense for hang-gliders to have their version of a beginners slope?
The problem is that there are no Instructors for an RQ-170......with unconventional controls and a custom FCS, hence the issue........

#### Kiwi303

##### Well-Known Member
The problem is that there are no Instructors for an RQ-170......with unconventional controls and a custom FCS, hence the issue........

Why do you want to fly an unmanned stealth recon drone?

#### WINGITIS

##### Well-Known Member

Why do you want to fly an unmanned stealth recon drone?
Because its the same configuration I want, that is why I setup the Reflexed Airfoils thread, to help create the best airfoils for a flying wing, the Slot Lip Ailerons and a few other features are also what I wanted for a single stick controller with no pedals, as per Weick.

I did not want something that was just average as a Microlight, it needed to be SPORTY.......it has morphed a bit over time with some QUIET BIRD features and has aspects from various other aircraft for alternate control surfaces.

It needed to be dual-use(NEW SPORT) as well for later activities I have mentioned about to some others.

It is not intended to be "PC", hence my aversion to cluttering up flying with rules, its supposed to be about FREEDOM.

A modern Fokker D8 is required to get peoples imaginations flowing.... a NON CESSNA 150/2..... which were boring when they came out and are more so now...

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#### WINGITIS

##### Well-Known Member
And a pusher, Many thanks Henry

Lots of great info in here about it:

COOL!

Even his tow car is GREAT!

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#### tspear

##### Well-Known Member
Talk about thread drift! From battery powered planes will never have significant range with a minor excursion into solar only that is already decimating ICE to NZ microlight regulations! I am still not sure how that leap was made.

Tim

#### Saville

##### Well-Known Member
That is less than $3 per person. What is stopping them? BJC PS$100,000,000 isn’t what it once was.

The rolling blackouts they have already suffered, what with closing fossil generation and regulation and renewable expenditures?

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The rolling blackouts they have already suffered, what with closing fossil generation and regulation and renewable expenditures?
Pilot-34 has a secret plan that uses, well, read below ...

For instance right now California could be completely renewable resource Powered.
And while doing that tourism could be increased, Southern California can enjoy more water ,native bands could enjoy increased employment ,better standards of living and the health can be improved through the entire southern quarter of the state And Electric transportation could become the norm.

All of this with about $100 million investment in very old very proven very off-the-shelf technology. I doubt that there is any real solution as described in the quote above. BJC #### Aesquire ##### Well-Known Member Local training bill is 150 feet. You start on level ground & learn to handle the wing in the wind. Then move up a few feet to launch & land, little crow hops. Once you've learned the IMPORTANT part, landing, you carry it a little higher, rinse, repeat, until you have room for more than just correcting turns. Soaring is ideally picked up as you fly bigger hills with your hopefully growing skills. Or you tow up. Scooter tow ( rear wheel replaced with spool, a winch tow ) truck towing with pay out winch, ( allows much higher flights ) and aircraft tow. All have been used locally, and tandem instruction is normal now. Heck we've done human tow with pulley multiplier, bungee launch, ( see 1930's films ) and balloon drops. (Whee!) Pretty much the only method of flight I haven't tried is trebuchet. Personally. I've built them & thrown rocks and melons. From SCA list legal tossing a tetrahedron of tennis balls wrapped in duct tape, to full scale throwing 200 pound rocks 300 yards, suitable for smashing castle walls. That one's at a Ren Fair now. #### Aesquire ##### Well-Known Member #### Pilot-34 ##### Well-Known Member Pilot-34 has a secret plan that uses, well, read below ... I doubt that there is any real solution as described in the quote above. BJC Of course you do because the solution is quite simple and will be painfully obvious as soon as it is done and everyone will say 0G why didn’t I think of that. If there’s anyone here that thinks they can obtain financing for a project like this and is willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement I’d. be glad to discuss it with them. I would particularly like to talk to anyone involved in the sales and distribution of electricity in Cali. #### Bille Floyd ##### Well-Known Member Practice flight: Aerotowing my U2 hang-glider ... I had a WW U2 ; decided to give it away, in favor of flying the Exxtacy, Rigid-wing, so i wouldn't be splitting time on two different brands of gliders. Fast forward to this year : The guy i gave my U2 away to years ago ; he gave me a crashed Atos (the same as the one i have now) so now i have near all the parts I need, to replace any damage i might have in the future !!! I might use a small electric motor, with a minimum KWH battery as a substaner motor only , on the Atos ; which may be Great, if I ever come up short of my intended landing aria, (some-day). Wouldn't tow it up , but would foot-launch it instead ; lost both legs to a towing accident in 2007 , and i'm still too scared, to do it again ! Bille #### Kiwi303 ##### Well-Known Member Talk about thread drift! From battery powered planes will never have significant range with a minor excursion into solar only that is already decimating ICE to NZ microlight regulations! I am still not sure how that leap was made. Tim It might seem a big drift, but it was made up of several smaller steps... Batterys suck -> Alternitive to batteries (i.e. Hydrogen) from water. Grid power + water = Hydrogen, Hydrogen in ICE -> Free water from the sky -> Water rights/US sky water ain't free -> NZ sky water = free -> more reason to live in NZ including Microlight regs -> arguing about interpretation of NZ microlight regs. You need to go back about 6 pages or so to find the start, but it's sorta a logical progression #### jedi ##### Well-Known Member I did start a thread specifically for Thread Drift in the (now page 2 of the) Hanger Flying section. I am ready to talk about the advantages of a chemical/mechanical phase change O2 - hydrocarbon battery with rechargeable electrolyte as a method of extending the range of (sub-electric) aircraft. Last edited: #### Pilot-34 ##### Well-Known Member You’ve got to expect the thread to drift but even more so when you use terms like battery that are not clearly defined. I will agree with the thread title if we’re talking about lead acid batteries. But once we get away from that energy storage is wide open. #### tspear ##### Well-Known Member I am ready to talk about the advantages of a chemical/mechanical phase change O2 - hydrocarbon battery with rechargeable electrolyte as a method of extending the range of (sub-electric) aircraft. Care to translate? Tim #### Aesquire ##### Well-Known Member You’ve got to expect the thread to drift but even more so when you use terms like battery that are not clearly defined. I will agree with the thread title if we’re talking about lead acid batteries. But once we get away from that energy storage is wide open. Nope. Lead acid or Lithium Iron Cobalt you are talking secondary cells with a tiny fraction of the energy density of gasoline, even including the tanks, motors, engines and computers. Lithium chemistry cells are much better than the lead acid cells in my motorcycle, except for cost and pollution, true. But there's multiple orders of magnitude to go to hit parity with a gas turbine or 2 stroke gasoline burner. And I don't see that this century, if ever. If you're talking antiproton storage in buckyballs? That's not a chemical secondary battery. Ditto Fusion. Nor is my favorite, steam engine powered by reactor waste. Otoh, I can understand if you have safety concerns with antimatter or 900 degree radioactive heavy metals in a crash. #### Saville ##### Well-Known Member BJC said: That is less than$3 per person. What is stopping them?

The rolling blackouts they have already suffered, what with closing fossil generation and regulation and renewable expenditures?

And to make it even more enjoyable, there's now this, which, I am sure, will help the rolling blackouts:

Los Angeles County votes to phase out oil and gas drilling

Over 1,600 active and idle oil and gas wells in the county could be shuttered after the 5-0 vote by the board of supervisors. A timetable for the phaseout will be decided after the county determines the fastest way to legally shut down the wells.

#### Pilot-34

##### Well-Known Member
Nope. Lead acid or Lithium Iron Cobalt you are talking secondary cells with a tiny fraction of the energy density of gasoline, even including the tanks, motors, engines and computers. Lithium chemistry cells are much better than the lead acid cells in my motorcycle, except for cost and pollution, true. But there's multiple orders of magnitude to go to hit parity with a gas turbine or 2 stroke gasoline burner.

And I don't see that this century, if ever.

If you're talking antiproton storage in buckyballs? That's not a chemical secondary battery. Ditto Fusion. Nor is my favorite, steam engine powered by reactor waste.

Otoh, I can understand if you have safety concerns with antimatter or 900 degree radioactive heavy metals in a crash.
Battery is just a wide-open term for s energy storage method ,you know like a gas tank!

By that definition we’re already there!

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
Care to translate?

"I am ready to talk about the advantages of a chemical/mechanical phase change O2 - hydrocarbon battery with rechargeable electrolyte as a method of extending the range of (sub-electric) aircraft. "

Tim
tspear,

I would love to but too much thread drift for here. Let's do that in the Thread Drift area: