Why battery-powered aircraft will never have significant range

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Bf 109

Banned
No. There are huge financial rewards for any engineer, or team of engineers, that comes up with such a breakthrough. There are already many attempting it. As was made plain much earlier in this thread, there are hard chemical limits to all this. Only so many free electrons in so many atoms in any battery. Wishful thinking, or bragadoccio, or desperate prophecies, won't bring it any closer. It's far more complicated than that.

Like I've said before, someone developing something truly revolutionary is going to keep quiet about it until they have applied for patents in just about every country. It might suddenly appear. That's how the Wrights did it.
That's hilarious, you started talking about the obvious limitation of battery technology (limitations based in common high school chemistry and physics), and them you leave the door open for an battery powered unicorn to appear LOL.

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
For an Engineer, it is socially acceptible to be right in the past & wrong in the present.

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Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
That's hilarious, you started talking about the obvious limitation of battery technology (limitations based in common high school chemistry and physics), and them you leave the door open for an battery powered unicorn to appear LOL.
Standard chemistry has its limits. Quantum physics has possibilities. It has been mentioned before. Maybe you missed it. But physicists are still figuring out what's going on in the subatomic particle world; without understanding it nobody is likely to come up with any breakthroughs.

Bf 109

Banned
Standard chemistry has its limits. Quantum physics has possibilities. It has been mentioned before. Maybe you missed it. But physicists are still figuring out what's going on in the subatomic particle world; without understanding it nobody is likely to come up with any breakthroughs.
I've following the news from Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Switzerland for some time but your speculations walk in near Wacko territory and I'm sure I haven't missed a thing.
Keep believing in science fiction unicorns, what's next? a muon powered graphene battery for your dream personal electric plane? LOL

Topaz

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IS BF109 fizzle!?(Amur Falcon)
Damnit. Yes. Banned again.

Seems to be a person who loves trolling. We'll probably see more of him/her.

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Bf 109,
Welcome to the HBA community.

There are a lot of folks here, and you are new. It may be useful for you to get to know some of those who post here before insulting folks and breaking up the furniture.

Topaz

Super Moderator
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Bf 109 was another incarnation of Amur-Falcon, late of this forum, and now joined by Bf 109, also banned for trolling.

mcrae0104

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HBA Supporter
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Anyone living in Colorado, USA (and likely some other western states) can tell you different.
It is illegal to collect rain water there, because the state literally sells the runoff (via river) to California.
Without wading into the politics, I do want to mention--only briefly, since it's well afield of the topic at hand--that rainwater collection is not strictly illegal in the state of Colorado, and is in fact allowed on a limited basis. The Colorado State University extension office has information available on this. On a recent land development project which involved some water rights issues, one of the engineers reminded us that the hierarchy of power in the West remains:
2. The Almighty
3. Those owning waterways or downstream water rights

mcrae0104

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
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This is a political, not scientific statement. You show me your German Scientists, and I'll show you my German scientists. ;-) We can debate causes, but <1% of climate scientists, world wide, for decades, can't be right.

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
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It was a known troll who started this whole diversion in this thread. Maybe we can give that person a little less satisfaction and get back on-topic?

Thanks.

mcrae0104

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
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View attachment 115556
It was a known troll who started this whole diversion in this thread. Maybe we can give that person a little less satisfaction and get back on-topic?

Thanks.
Ja.

Staff member
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WINGITIS

Well-Known Member
Damnit. Yes. Banned again.

Seems to be a person who loves trolling. We'll probably see more of him/her.
Hopefully next time he will learn what he is missing out on and behave better so we do not notice him.

I did my best to STEER him into the corner of reality, because his energy was there, but ALAS he did not quite get there....

I was going to ask him what his Father thought of his antics, but thought that would be inappropriate if one was not present, so refrained.

tspear

Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to the older concept of liquid zinc batteries where you swap the liquid out? I never did look into how they worked, or the energy density.

Tim

Pilot-34

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of this argument has been quite similar to the arguments around 1900 between the fans of electric cars and the fans of steam cars.

Dan Thomas

Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to the older concept of liquid zinc batteries where you swap the liquid out? I never did look into how they worked, or the energy density.

Tim
If they're like the old carbon-zinc batteries, the zinc becomes zinc chloride or something. Permanently.

There are two types of battery cells: primary and secondary. The carbon-zinc is an example of the former, and lead-acid an example of the latter. The primary cell undergoes chemical changes not reversible by recharging. The secondary's components revert to their original elements when recharged. In the lead-acid cell there are plates of lead and lead peroxide, submerged in sulfuric acid. During discharge, both the lead and lead peroxide change to lead sulfate and the acid turns to water. An electron exchange occurs, generating the current flow. Recharging (reversing the current flow) puts everything back the way it was.

Pilot-34

Well-Known Member
for anyone who thinks electric planes won’t be the norm in the next 50 years or so, are dinosaurs that have you heads in the sand. Probably the same people who think Lycoming will be the engine of choice forever, who think mags are the best way to go, who think water cooled is too heavy. Old people, old technology
I think there is very little new technology and I doubt there will be any in 50 years.
What it will be is probably a new application of an old technology.

For instance right now California could be completely renewable resource Powered.
And while doing that tourism could be increased, Southern California can enjoy more water ,native bands could enjoy increased employment ,better standards of living and the health can be improved through the entire southern quarter of the state And Electric transportation could become the norm.

All of this with about $100 million investment in very old very proven very off-the-shelf technology. But people would have to stand on their heads to see it. And that’s the problem with most technology not so much the technology itself but getting people to look at problems in a different way. BJC Well-Known Member HBA Supporter All of this with about$100 million investment in very old very proven very off-the-shelf technology.
But people would have to stand on their heads to see it.
That is less than $3 per person. What is stopping them? BJC PS$100,000,000 isn’t what it once was.

Pilot-34

Well-Known Member
That is less than $3 per person. What is stopping them? BJC PS$100,000,000 isn’t what it once was.
They just won’t stand on their heads !

Yeah that hundred million may not be much but if I had it I believe like I would shortly become the richest most beloved person in the world.

Here’s the thing it’s very simple very old fashion technology applied in a slightly unusual way.
And people are so busy trying to solve one problem at a time it never occurred to them solve several all at once.

tspear

Well-Known Member
Assuming this idea has merit, either post ir here for us all to poke at; or pick a couple of people who have a lot of experience in whatever industry you need and ask them to poke holes in it.
Once you have that completed, send me a PM or plenty of others on here and we can help chase funding. I do have investor contacts for example that bought a company I co-founded years ago. I know others in the space also.

Tim