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Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by etard, Jan 10, 2015.
Hope not... all I have is silver bars...
When you sell your soul to the devil, he gets you lock, stock, and barrel.
You should go riding with me sometime. Airplanes are boring by comparison.
I have seen a few riders perform a Lomcevak; I would rather be bored.
What you describe was decades ago, what I describe was just a few short years ago. I remember when gas was .22cents. But again that was decades ago. I remember when a used flying EAB was under 5 grand, that was just a few years ago.
This spring I will be selling a flying EAB for under 8 grand.
I have a buddy looking for an airplane. He has been looking for 2 years. There are not lots of good buys, but a lot of over priced junk. He wants a two seat side-by-side something or other. Everything he has looked at the owner is living on mars when it comes to price and condition. People are hurting for cash and want top dollar for junk.
In all fairness, I can say a lot of buyers want the latest wiz bang stuff installed in the panel, new paint and interior but they only want to pay used Yugo prices.
There's some good deals out there and there's some bad deals out there. Not many giveaways, nor should one expect something for nothing.
In some ways nothing has changed.
For the most part....a lot of GA aircraft sit more then they fly. Join a local EAA Chapter club and start talking around the airport. A lot of guys are just looking for buddies to fly with and will let you fly their stuff if you buy the fuel....
And when they hurt long enough and bad enough, they will lower the price until it sales or they will keep on hurting.
Just a fact of life. That is the time to be quick with the money in hand.
Pops did you sell your airplane? That sure is a nice airplane. No junk there.
People selling airplanes are kind of off. They will buy a car and live with the depreciation when they get a new or better one; airplane sellers want every penny they spent including oil changes out of the plane when they sell. They just cant see it lose for some reason. There is a Cessna 175 on the airport. The guy has owned it for 45 years; he wants $30,000. Worth, we will say, $5000 because the engine was overhauled 10 years ago with only a few hours. That is a real benefit of the doubt. The rest looks like out of a junk yard except its straight. Holes in the fuel tank looked like someone shot it with a shotgun; he smeared PRC on it to seal it. If the engine was worse it would not be worth $2000.
Personally, I'm a little uncomfortable using "cheap" and "airplanes" in the same sentence! :whistle:
Some people will just let them sit and rot until they are worth nothing. Have seen it done many times. I don't get it, I'd rather have $100 vs. $0.00.
It's a bit like Cuba, where everyone drives '55 Chevys because nothing new is possible.
I suppose a junk '55 Chevy is still worth quite a bit for a restoration for someone that can afford the cost.
The same here with airplanes. New aircraft are made almost impossible by FAA and trial lawyers.
That means second hand 40-70 year old airplanes get to be rebuilt a third time. Is that safe?
The only slightly bright side is Kitplanes.
I have bought and rebuilt certified airplanes in the past 40 years. But now, I think buying used EA-B is the way to go.
Face it, prices are still down, even if some of them may have recovered a bit. I still see a sea of good deals out there and lots of prices still dropping. Low end homebuilts are probably the best deals out there, but used factory-built planes are also down.
When you see a high priced plane out there, it is because one or more of the following:
1. It is a very high-end aircraft (or very new with an outstanding loan).
2. The seller is not facing the reality of the market (or has a strong emotional attachment).
3. As Turk mentioned, the plane may be loaded with hi-tech whizbang devices and the value is in the electronics.
4. A new or overhauled engine may support a higher price, but not always.
5. You are looking in the wrong place (different publications and brokers have different seller mindsets... I like Barnstormers).
Still, I would pay more for a plane than a car, but that is based on my personal priorities.... I think cars (especially new cars) are notoriously overpriced.
I disagree with this analysis. I think that when money is plentiful, people hang on to their toys. When money starts getting tight, they start to sell off their toys, but there are still enough people in the acquisition mode to keep the prices from dropping too much. When money and area economics starts getting really tight, people start actively divesting themselves of toys and luxuries to build their bank... when everyone else is in the same boat, there are not the buyers out there to support the current prices, so a bit of desperation sets in and prices start to plummet. Sellers will do whatever they must to sell their plane and get out from under the hangar rent, maintenance costs, and property tax.
In addition to that, the aging and declining pilot population has shifted the balance of supply and demand.
When money gets tight they sell off their toys wanting what they paid for said toy for they need all the cash they can get there hands on. But first they sell off all their crap to keep those toys as long as they can.
My buddy sold his quicksilver that had a new 503 dcdi for 5000 bucks two years ago. He did this thinking he would buy a two seat side by side something or other. He is still looking today, he does not want anything fancy, just something in nice shape for a descent price.
From the post here it sounds like people are giving these things away. I do not see it. I would like someone to post some of these deals they speak of. I am not talking projects but flying aircraft that all they need is a pilot.
The one and only truly good looking airplane at a descent price I have seen lately is that of Pops. All others are pieces needing help that are being sold for top dollar or over priced flying airplanes. Post some of these deals my buddy would be grateful, he can't find squat and is about ready to give up.
Compared to the peak of the market, they are.
What do you think this should sell for? It's a '56 C-172. 4800TT, 1800 SMOH, 300 STOH. Fly it home, last annual done in the spring of 2014.
Well for starters, the engine is at TBO. The 300 STOH helps IF you plan on running the engine a few hundred hours past TBO. The radio is a slide in replacement for the old Mark 12. Very old Loran-c radio that is junk . ( I have several Loran-c's on the shelf that I would give away). Wrong wheel pants, and control wheels for the year. On the good side, its a 1959, I have owned 3 1959's. Plus side, I like the Cont- 0-300 engines. I ran one to 1911 hrs and all the lower end of the engine measured at new tolerances when I tore it down for the MOH. 3 or 4 months left on the annual. If I was making an offer and it had no corrosion and good paper work, it would be $9500 and if refused, walk away.
Added -- Checked the N number. The FAA has it as a 1956 with a 29215 serial number, made in 9/24/56. From the pictures, the instrument panel and cowl nose bowl is a 1959. Bet the data plate is from a 1956 and put on a 59 airframe. If that is the case, I wouldn't touch it. Like I said, it needs good paper work.
I'll give you t'ree fity' for it.
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