What's wrong with the Affordaplane?

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Tiger Tim

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Thanks for the great replies, guys. I have a bunch of stuff on my plate at the moment so I really can't do much more than the most cursory research for the next couple months but I plan on coming back to this sometime during the winter. I'll be sure to start a thread on it then.

-Tim
 

Robert Dingus

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Would a legal 103 Affordaplane flying into Oshkosh next year prove this design to everyone.

i am willing to try and prove it. i am almost done building mine.

Robert :ban:
 

Robert Dingus

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Ok, that can be done, i hope to get wings on it this weekend, to make up the flying wires for the nose to wing and wing to tail bracing. Penidng weahter. hanging the engine back on it after a fresh rebuild is the easy part of all of this. i can get a prelimenary weight and see where i am at now.

will advise ASAP.

robert
 

nerobro

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I'd love to see it. Would you be offended if I brought scales with me? :) I'd like to know what you're doing not per plan. IIRC, when I did the math on the plane, per plan, it still came out heavy.

Oh, while we're at it. If you want to toss some pictures my way, I'll get you up on the affordaplane blog. :)
 

Robert Dingus

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front plane view small.jpg
i would not be offended at all, when we start the W&B phase of this, my A&P will be the one to certify it as meeting the limits. He has more than 30 years of experience, and i have 6 years of experience working on hilicopters. I have strayed from the original plan that is true. I cheated a little, by using the wings and a set of streamlined struts from the CGS Hawk. this wing set will make my plane a little faster, since the chord went from 60 inches to 56 inches, but the width is about 24 inches wider so that would make up for the difference. and still gives me roughly the same wing surface area as the original plans.


here is one with the wings on it. Robert
 

Robert Dingus

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i found the wings locally, the owner had scrapped out the frame a few years ago, and had the wings stored in his barn. i got the wings, struts, and a complete instrument cluster for 350.00 it was a steal, as the wing covers are 1800.00 new, and the insruments were roughly worth 750 / 1000. those wings saved me quite a bit of money as i could not buy the alumanim for 350 new. these wings were actually overbuilt, it uses a 2.250 leading edge diameter tube, and 1.75 trailing edge tube. plus the bouns is flaps, that should slow things down to a walk if needed.

Robert
 

MotoChaos

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I am interested in your progress as well. I will be beginning my A-plane in a few weeks, any tips and/or personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

-Jason
 

Robert Dingus

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Moto, i see you are in my old stomping ground, i was all over water town for 2 years back in 91-93. That is a nice area, i was on the base there.
the best advice i can give you, is invenst in a good drill press and band saw, a chop saw is nice as well. take your time with the match hole drilling, if you can pre drill all of the gusset plates, and then lay your first tube into the drill to get the holes lined up cleanly, you can then drill the other holes after clamping the plates in place with the one hole and a bolt through it to help align it.

most of all take your time, measure twice and cut once. what are you planning on starting first, the fuselage or the tail feathers.
if tail feathers, you can use electrical conduit benders for that part, just go slow as alumanim bends easier than the EMT stuff does.

Robert
 

MotoChaos

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Thanks for the advice! I'm a little later getting started than expected, just ordered my first parts today. I've done quite a bit of research and I'm confident that this is a job that I can handle. The tricky part will be keeping the weight within limits. When the first parts come in I will be starting the fuselage and I will start a builders log along with it. Wish me luck!
 

Marc A Gagnon

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I had ordered the plans years ago when they first came out but I think there are better choices out there I also ordered the legal eagle this plane is out of Texas I then ordered the Double eagle and the new design the Cabin eagle-CE these plans are not available just yet but coming soon and Is what I think I will be going with. My choice for this Is due to the fact it is more suited to the Canadian climate. Plans are a bit more than the afordaplane.
 

rtfm

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Regarding the Affordaplane, Autoreply wrote:
This is one of those "designs" where you could show a couple of pictures to an engineer and then ask "what's wrong with this aircraft". If they can't name at least 10 items; don't hire them....
This is a non-answer, Autoreply. What are your actual objections to the design?

Duncan
 

autoreply

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Regarding the Affordaplane, Autoreply wrote:


This is a non-answer, Autoreply. What are your actual objections to the design?

Duncan
That it's clearly been designed without too much attention to structure and that some of the structural design is clearly suboptimal, some dangerous.

Both the LG and the wing attachment are going to result in a fairly spectacular death in even a most modest crash or just a hard landing. Even for normal flight loads, I'd be curious whether they would survive them (150% of 4G's for example).
 

nerobro

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Not really.
Did it seem that I was asking you?

Both the LG and the wing attachment are going to result in a fairly spectacular death in even a most modest crash*snip*'d be curious whether they would survive them (150% of 4G's for example).
The affordaplane I got to examine, had in it's past, bent the bottom frame member in a hard landing. Even with the sprung gear that were installed. The "as plans" landing gear are not sprung.
 

PTAirco

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View attachment 29193
i would not be offended at all, when we start the W&B phase of this, my A&P will be the one to certify it as meeting the limits. He has more than 30 years of experience, and i have 6 years of experience working on hilicopters.
Not wishing to offend your A&P, but a mechanic and an engineer are not the same thing. Nothing in the requirements to become an A&P asks the mechanic to to perform even the simplest stress analysis of anything. Most I have talked are great at diagnosing common problems in you common Piper or Cessna and then fixing them. Some are good at sheet metal, some are good at welding. Only one I ever met knew the first thing about analyzing a beam or truss structure. Maybe yours does, but if not, his "certifying" the plane means literally nothing.
 

rtfm

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Would you like my answer to this?
Hi,
Yes I would. I'm not building an A-Plane, nor planning to. But I'd very much like to hear what the actual objections to the design are - other than blanket dismissals and vague observations.

For example, the inadequacy of the main gear has been fairly well documented. I get that. But what (for example) about the rest of the structure is suboptimal.

Regards,
Duncan
 
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