Quantcast

Whats the best aircraft design software?

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
14,444
Location
Port Townsend WA
The research paper that I found showed that the spoilers, undeflected, increased the attached air flow further back than not having them, increasing the CL value . Sorta like the leading edge cuffs.
I am not aware of any spoilers that increase lift. In general, almost all spoiler roll control was abandoned by experimenters. The exception is blade spoilers combined with short ailerons, like the Helio.
 

Andy_RR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
290
Location
Melbourne, Australia
There is software on X-Plane that lets you design and simulate.
Please don't use X-Plane as a design tool - you'll shoot yourself in the foot. Use MS Excel (or open-source alternatives...) and learn the basics of flight modelling first. That way you'll have less chance of decieving yourself with your amazing ideas.

PS: Not at all saying X-Plane isn't useful! It's a super cool and handy tool for specific purposes - just not design.
 

davidjgall

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
78
Location
Northern California, USA

Protech Racing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
355
It’s not the only one that ran top mounted airlerons. The early test showed that spoilers ha a lag for roll control, which makes sense in that of instead of vectoring air up and down for roll, you are destroying lift on one side and waiting for that side to drop.
The increase in lift was only at flat position and due to keeping the air attached further
It could work , may not
Thanks for the input.
 

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,758
Location
US
One thing about spoliers is that they provide roll control proportionate to the amount of lift you are asking from the wing. Lots of pulling on the stick=more roll for the same displacement. Pushover/bunt? Maybe no roll ability at all unless you get some Gs on the wing.

Overall, in general, GA aircraft have used ailerons for good reason.
 

User27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
80
Location
England
The only time spoilers might work for roll control is when there is a large amount of adverse yaw, a spoiler at the tip of the down going wing may provide some balancing effect. Open class sailplanes sometimes use this technique - but the tendency now is for shorter wings and slightly higher wing loadings.
 

Protech Racing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
355
The best term for my parts are: top mounted aerlerons , not spoilers in the sense that these are not in the wing. They are mounted at the front 31%spar , with some air balance And deflect up only.
 

Tiger Tim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
3,530
Location
Thunder Bay
The research paper that I found showed that the spoilers, undeflected, increased the attached air flow further back than not having them, increasing the CL value . Sorta like the leading edge cuffs.
The data did not show increased lift as deflection increased . Maybe they failed to try it or maybe it doesnt happen
I suspect the increase of lift is simply turbulation. A spanwise strip of thick tape in the right place would have a similar effect but like all things there’s a trade off.

I’ve never experienced a wing initially rising counter to spoileron input myself but I do find there’s a small dead zone in the middle of the control movement. I don’t think it’s caused by slop in the system, I suspect I’m actually using the spoilers to measure the depth of the boundary layer over the wing. I’ve never tried unloading the wing to check roll response because I don’t want to mess with fuel and oil supply to the engines so I can’t help you there. My gut feeling though is that roll spoilers are best on aircraft with high wing loadings and history shows that’s where they’ve been used the most. Ultralights with spoilerons all seem to either fall out of favour or evolve a set of ailerons instead. YMMV.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
14,177
Location
Memphis, TN
Proverse yaw will be very awkward to deal with and hopefully it will not be so bad as to want to spin the plane. Stalling a section of the wing to turn does not seem a good way to go.

Spoilerons on big planes tend to deal with structure as well as adverse yaw. Engineers don’t want to have to deal with an 40 ft aileron; they would rather deal with a 20 ft aileron and a couple of 10 ft spoilers. Airliners are rated at a lower G than small airplanes. As strong as they seem airliners are fragile with all the weight they carry. Like the Airbus pilot ripping the rudder off by using it too much. The structure is much more fragile and lots of thought are made to make it all work. The most technical designs are ones where weight is super critical. Something like a Cub or a Cessna can be sloppy designed overweight a good bit. It’s going to fly ok and not fall apart. Not talking about perfection, sloppy can get it done. A 103 ultralight or an airliner where weight is paired down to almost no margin are where real thought comes in.
 
Top