What scale and composition of your favorite Warbird would you purchase?

Discussion in 'Warbirds / Warbird Replicas' started by J Galt, Nov 30, 2019.

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What scale and composition of your favorite warbird would you purchase?

  1. 100% in metal as original

    40.0%
  2. 100% in composite

    6.7%
  3. 90% in metal

    26.7%
  4. 90% in composite

    26.7%
  1. Dec 1, 2019 #21

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    The Hornet was it's little sister.
     
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  2. Dec 1, 2019 #22

    J Galt

    J Galt

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    Very cool cockpits, looks like a lot of work.

    When you see the Texas Spitfire in videos it looks a little small around the pilot at roughly 75-80% (it's not a true scale of any particular size) but seeing the Titan P-51 at Oshkosh last year that thing seemed pretty big even at 75%. It was a high back version that I was checking out so that probably adds to the overall appearance of larger size.

    So far looks like no single option has the most votes but 90% is ahead of 100%, maybe people are thinking practicality?
    Thanks guys,
    Justin
     
  3. Dec 1, 2019 #23

    Bill-Higdon

    Bill-Higdon

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    150% Fokker D-7, Just kidding
     
  4. Dec 1, 2019 #24

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    I would like to see a 70% scale done of the Grumman F2F done in wood and composite powered by a 5 or 7 cylinder radial. I believe price of build would be within a average mans ability and with both wings for lift at 70% size it would be a fair performing AC and able to carry a good size pilot or two. grumman f2f 2.jpg grumman f2f.jpg
     
  5. Dec 2, 2019 #25

    Aviacs

    Aviacs

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    Vega was pressure/bladder molded (opposite of vacuum bagged) into concrete forms.
    Seems like an accessible "technology" for a range of more or less cigar shaped wooden fuselages.
    Assuming access to a suitable bandsaw & widebelt sander to make the veneers.

    Alternately, I've had flitches commercially sliced to a specific thickness for structural use. For airplanes, there might need to be a spec for the grain configuration and run-out.

    :)
    smt
     
  6. Dec 2, 2019 #26

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    I was thinking Alum bulkheads and longarons for main fuselage with wooden stringers and wood wings and tail group
     
  7. Dec 2, 2019 #27

    Riggerrob

    Riggerrob

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    British-built Mosquitos were made on wooden molds.
    After they grew frustrated with wooden molds warping, deHavilland of Canada switched to concrete molds.

    A few years back, a group of frenchmen built a wooden, half-scale replica of a Mosquito. They only had to "cheat" a bit on the cockpit canopy and exhaust covers. They had to enlarge the canopy to fit two frenchmen side-by side. The main spar prevents tandem seating. To hide cylinder heads (Lycoming) they installed enlarged copies of the exhaust flash hiders common on Mosquito night-fighters.

    Half-scale is a bout the minimum practical size for WW2 replicas, but you still need to cheat a bit with canopies and control sizes. Most comfortable replicas are 70 or 80 percent scale.
    I would never built a 100 percent replica because many of the originals had "squirelly" handling and exhausted 19-year-old pilots. Modern weekend pilots need more docile handling.
     
  8. Dec 2, 2019 #28

    Riggerrob

    Riggerrob

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    Since the Mosquito replica has already been done, I am switching my sketching to an asymmetrical Blohm & Voss 141 recce plane. Half scale leaves barely enough room between the main spar and propeller. That small scale would press the pilot's shoulders against the main spar if he/she does not want to risk losing toes to broken propeller blades. Though I might have to go to a slightly larger scale to put the pilot's eyeballs forward of the leading edge. That would produce a wing span about 25 feet and 100 horsepower should be enough, so I will try to "borrow" an engine cowling from a WAR FW-190 to wrap around a Continental O-200.

    Ideally my BV 141 replica would be made of sheet aluminum hydraulically-formed around CNC cut blocks and held together with pop rivets. Given the light weight (1000 to 1500 pounds) construction techniques would resemble Thatcher, Hummel Bird, BK, RV, etc.

    Alternately, it would be CNC cut from foam blocks with fibreglass and epoxy vacuum-bagged around the blocks.
     
  9. Dec 2, 2019 #29

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

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    The guy who taught me how to do PFP molds ; him
    and his daughter, rented a Dino Ferrari, and molded
    the entire car, (in sections) in under 3 days !!

    PFP = Plastic faced plaster ; usually done in Hydrocal
    or Ultracal-30 , mixed with hemp for strength. Both
    plasters have a low expansion rate, when hydrogenated
    and they make epoxy surface agents that sticks to it,
    when wet.

    A Cessna 182, has a wingspan of 36' ; so a 70% scale
    XP-38, (52' full scale span) , would be Perfect , and have
    plenty of room inside for the pilot, and still look scale on
    the outside.

    I Like the XP-38 Lightning Best , because the engine
    pods look more streamline than the next ones out, with
    those giant air-intakes ; they were needed for cooling.
    Electric or water cooling , could remedy the cooling part
    and the air intakes could be some what hidden in the lines
    of the original.

    Bille

    p--- XP-38.jpeg p-38.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  10. Dec 2, 2019 #30

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    Personally, I like stand-off scale replicas that are easy to build and fly as light aircraft first and decent replicas second since I don't have the money or the motivation for something close to full size or power. The Sidlinger Hurricane is a good example.

    3732L-2.jpg

    My ideas for replicas start with running the numbers for an equivalent light plane of the same aspect/taper ratio as the original; generous allowances for pilot weight, fuel, etc.; conservative empty weight estimates; and a chosen powerplant. I also prefer all wood and fabric or wood and fabric wings with welded steel tube fuselage (tails can go either way) but that's not relevant to the scale question.

    I have always liked the Miles M.20 prototype "emergency fighter" and the fixed gear simplifies the replica. The 100 hp Aeromomentum AM13 (1.3l Suzuki 4-cylinder auto conversion, 170 lbs dry weight including redrive) seems like a good fit. I didn't start with the scale, I ran the numbers and that gave me the scale, in this case about 75%. Here are some quick numbers and a couple of pics, PDF attachment is the same performance estimate but with a few more details.

    PRELIMINARY PERFORMANCE ESTIMATE FOR PROPELLER DRIVEN AIRCRAFT

    A/C Type: 75% Miles M.20
    Notes: Aeromomentum AM13

    Crew weight 250 lbs
    Fuel + baggage weight 100 lbs
    A/C empty weight 450 lbs
    Total weight 800 lbs

    Stall speed (flaps up) Vs1 45 mph
    Climb airspeed 58.5 mph
    Climb airspeed 85.8 ft/sec

    CLmax 1.5 (flaps up)
    Aspect ratio 5.11
    Induced drag factor K 1.1
    Wing span 22.9 feet
    Mean wing chord 4.49 feet

    Selected rated shaft power 100.0 BHP
    Take off run 259 feet
    Rate of climb at 1.3 Vs 2636 feet per minute
    Max level speed 162 mph
    Cruise speed at 75% power 147 mph
    Flaps up stall speed 45 mph
    Glide descent rate at 1.3 Vs 458 feet per minute

    image01.jpg
    miles_m-20.gif
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  11. Dec 2, 2019 #31

    J Galt

    J Galt

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    P-38's are very cool, they had one visit for the Warhawk Museum airshow here a couple years ago. It was very quiet.
    I had never heard of the Miles but that is really neat.
    Justin
     
  12. Dec 2, 2019 #32

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    The Miles M.20 prototype was ordered in July 1940 at the height of the Battle of Britain and first flew a little over two months later, thanks largely to the fact that it used as many Miles M.9 Master trainer parts as possible. Despite the wooden construction and fixed gear it was a little faster than a Hurricane (though slower than a Spitfire) with the same Merlin engine and the extra space in the wings left room for substantially more fuel and ammunition than the other fighters. By that point, fears that the RAF was going to run out of fighters before the Luftwaffe ran out of steam had subsided. A second, slightly more refined prototype was built in 1941 for possible Fleet Air Arm use as catapult-armed merchant (CAM) ship aircraft but they ended up using tired early Hurricanes instead. So only the two prototypes were ever built and the M.20 never entered production.
     
  13. Dec 2, 2019 #33

    Himat

    Himat

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    Forgot a detail, at full size.
    FFVS_J22.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  14. Dec 2, 2019 #34

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    That FFVS would be great, it's like a radial 109. Could probably do a 90-100% scale clone using an R-985 as long as the payload is strictly pilot and a bag or two
     
  15. Dec 3, 2019 #35

    wwz7777

    wwz7777

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    Any thoughts/opinions on the WAR airplanes? They’re roughly 60%.
     
  16. Dec 3, 2019 #36

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

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    Having seen a bunch in various museums (usually in the kids’ section), they don’t seem like they’re quite enough airplane to be something that you would want to fly regularly. Had they been 3/4 scale with 150-ish horsepower and a jump seat I bet there would be more at fly ins and fewer in mausoleums... I mean museums.

    Someone smarter then me can comment on what the small size does with regards to handling in the air and on the ground but check out the first post in this thread for thoughts on the more diminutive replicas out there:
    https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/threads/1-2-scale-warbirds.32545/
     
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  17. Dec 3, 2019 #37

    TiPi

    TiPi

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    this replica mosquito was 3/4 scale (2 seater), a 50% single seater as an ultralight (300kg MTOW) is on my bucket list. The wing area will then be about 10.5m2 and get me under the 30kg/m2 wing loading requirement.
     
  18. Dec 3, 2019 #38

    BJC

    BJC

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    A scaled T-34 (about RV-8 size) could make a very nice airplane, but there was one offered as a kit that was not, AFAIK, successful.


    BJC
     
  19. Dec 3, 2019 #39

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

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    If all goes well, I hope to start flying one of those next year. If all goes really well there will be an Isaacs Fury alongside it.
     
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  20. Dec 3, 2019 #40

    Riggerrob

    Riggerrob

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    Since the Grumman F2F's silhouette roughly matches that of a Pitts Special, it should fly pretty good. Just compare control surface areas and balance - with a Pitts - before cutting metal.
    I would probably start with a welded steel tubing fuselage concealed by composite panels.
    That deep fuselage could hide a tall and fat pilot!
     
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