Obviously has the minus of no extra shade when open.
;-)
;-)
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Hephaestus
Well-Known Member
Up north we call that a feature
I know someone who had good results getting a used fire hose the local FD was disposing of. He bought some foam pipe insulation from Home Depot and inserted it into the hose to give it some collapsible cushion, and screwed the whole thing to the bottom of his hangar door. Says he never saw a drop of water after that.
Alarms require communication if you want them to do anything more than just make noise. If you can get internet access there, you can just use one of the wireless Ring systems that sends alerts to your phone. Those systems can be as simple as a single motion activated camera or as complex as having sensors on all the doors and windows. With a phone line, you can install a traditional security system monitored by an alarm company, but there's a monthly cost. Some will use a cell phone connection in lieu of a landline. For that matter, there's a small monthly cost for the Ring system too. I've had, and do have, both kinds of systems, and I've installed both as well. But I don't have any experience with them in a hangar, because mine is only 100 feet from my back door, and I live in an upscale airpark with no traffic anywhere near my hangar.
I may not call anything perfect, but I'm very, very happy with my Higher Power door. Works great, has almost zero headroom (unlike a bifold), and came with two key fobs that work from 50 yards away without even requiring an external antenna. It's also freestanding, so no building prep was required. It just bolts to the concrete.
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- Joined
- Apr 30, 2019
- Messages
- 45
The Reversion Clause...
What the heck is a reversion clause you say? Well, here at KRST (Rochester, Minnesota), where we are trying to renegotiate our land lease, our airport manager is insisting on a reversion clause - a clause in the contract that causes the ownership of the hangar to revert to the airport at the end of the lease.
Yup, you read that right... at the end of the lease, the hangar no longer belongs to me, it belongs to the airport(!)
And lest you believe this is unique to KRST ... I've been working closely with AOPA legal, who tells me that yup, that's standard across the country, and that if I fight it I'll most certainly loose.
THAT's the thing I don't like for my hangar!
What the heck is a reversion clause you say? Well, here at KRST (Rochester, Minnesota), where we are trying to renegotiate our land lease, our airport manager is insisting on a reversion clause - a clause in the contract that causes the ownership of the hangar to revert to the airport at the end of the lease.
Yup, you read that right... at the end of the lease, the hangar no longer belongs to me, it belongs to the airport(!)
And lest you believe this is unique to KRST ... I've been working closely with AOPA legal, who tells me that yup, that's standard across the country, and that if I fight it I'll most certainly loose.
THAT's the thing I don't like for my hangar!
TFF
Well-Known Member
Reversion clause. It has a name. Most leases also state you can’t take it with you once you build. Don’t think you get to take it down and with you before the lease is up. The local EAA chapter signed a 15 year lease, built a nice hangar thinking 15 years is a long time. It’s not. my airport values space as airplane storage. If 4 planes fit in the hangar the new rent is 4 airplanes. Cost per month doubled from paying off construction to becoming a renter. The oldtimer at the airport has his lease coming up next year. 50 year lease. He is 90. The only lease that long granted. Most have been 20. And they are all starting to pop. Our big hangar was the first. We are about to finally give it up because it is not worth dealing with anymore. Keeping the small one. If you ever want money out, you need at least 15 years left on a lease to transfer. Even then it’s going to be not a lot of money. Our area about a thousand a year left for a big one plane hangar.
Yup, very common. My neighbor got his Pitts when the original builder / owner lost his hangar of 20 years to the airport.
That lease clause sucks.
BJC
speedracer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2020
- Messages
- 250
The only "perfect" hangers I've seen are at the Santa Paula, CA airport. They're big with cable overhead doors and have a living quarter upstairs. You own the hanger AND the land under it. I think they're going for the upper 300K's.
I’ve been on wait lists that were not followed at public airports, and, at a private airport, a promised new hangar that never was built, even though it had been approved and funded by the owners.
Joy is walking 40 feet to the hangar that I laid out.
BJC
Joy is walking 40 feet to the hangar that I laid out.
BJC
TFF
Well-Known Member
A friend has close to the perfect hangar. You can get three aircraft in. Has a crane that can move to most parts of the main floor. Back half is essentially a two story apartment. On the hangar floor under is shop area. One flight up is kitchen, living area. Another flight up is bedroom. 1000 sq. His house is next door so it is used as a guest room. All floors are radiant heat plus the upstairs have additional help. Fuel tank outside. Lake in front for float or ski or taxi up the drive to the runway.
kent Ashton
Well-Known Member
Biggest gripe: sliding doors that block a neighbor's access or block you in. I would love to have these flat doors that put no load on the structure. Hangar Doors - Self Supporting | Higher Power Doors Other flat hydraulic doors put a big load on the structure when the stick out.
Good idea to use old fire hose on the bottom. Also use those heavy plastic strips used in big drive-in coolers
Good idea to use old fire hose on the bottom. Also use those heavy plastic strips used in big drive-in coolers
Never saw that kind of door before. Kind of appropriate to use a Fowler flap mechanism for a hangar door.
Nice door. Anoying web site.
'Patented roller cam'
Proof positive you can patent anything, as long as it isn't challenged.
Long before, there was the Ultimate Door, which is an expanded copy of the door on the garage of my parents' house, built in the late '40s/early '50s.
A counterweighted one-piece door can be 'free standing', if that means not loading the gable.
Proof positive you can patent anything, as long as it isn't challenged.
Long before, there was the Ultimate Door, which is an expanded copy of the door on the garage of my parents' house, built in the late '40s/early '50s.
A counterweighted one-piece door can be 'free standing', if that means not loading the gable.
That looks like a good approach, especially for someone wanting a good door at a low price, and willing to drive some screws. Two thoughts:
1) Do the plans/kits come with a stamp from an engineer that is acceptable to local code authorities/airport managers/underwriters? That will be important to many folks.
2) It would appear that a truss on the outside of the door and running horizontally just below the midpoint (as on the Higher Power doors and some others) might improve stiffness and the max wind loadings without adding much weight or complexity.
Gable roof with north-facing slope. Creates an ice dam on the ground in the winter. 
Chopping Ice March 2015.MOV
Chopping Ice March 2015.MOV
^^^^^Thanks for that!^^^^^^
We don't have water intrusion. but the weatherseals are frayed, partly missing at the bottom of our bi-folds. This might be an option if it does not weigh too much. Otherwise, maybe a smaller size collapsible discharge hose, which i use in the shop for "firehose clamps". The CDH has poly over fabric, and does collapse to a nice flat-ish cross section, but i would not have thought of it without above comment.
Per OPQ -
We've been lucky in our reversion clause. 20 years flew by, no pun intended.
But we got a re-up for 20 more. This year is 25 since planning & first efforts commenced, official completion 25th year is 2022.
Not much to complain about - sometimes too many aircraft to move when you need to get yours out. OTOH it is great to have so many different projects, and so many people of various tallents to lean on when help is useful.
In the bigger picture we have excellent relations with TSA, Tower, FAA, FSDO. They are all good resources & have helped our programs in many areas. OTOH TSA badging for the hangar area (which opens onto the airport, obviously), separate from the hospitality areas (which have a security and fire door to the hangar), could put some off.
I'll be honest and admit some days if i could just take an airplane out and fly in the pattern without communicating with ground and the tower, i'd be more likely to go out for "a quick 1/2 hour" of T & G's. Especially with the airplanes that only have handhelds/non electric.
smt
V1,
Actually, my comment was more about the silliness of patents than recommending a door.
The UD isn't really free standing; see below. A couple of guys on my airpark had them, and both disintegrated after a few years. Using untreated lumber (treated is too heavy) down here in the wet south, it's guaranteed to start decaying within a few years. The design might work well if the lumber was replaced with galvanized steel 'studs', like what you see for interior walls in commercial office buildings. And the design really is too complicated. Unlike a garage door which typically has a track on each end of the door, the UD requires one about every 8 feet, and a cable/pulley arrangement at each track, with all the cables turning to the side and gathered up to be pulled by a winch mounted on the side wall of the hangar. With all the cable supports (attached in the middle of the vertical height), the door doesn't need to be that rigid on its own.
If you scroll down to the bottom of the website, they show wind loads when using various species of wood to construct the door.
Actually, my comment was more about the silliness of patents than recommending a door.
The UD isn't really free standing; see below. A couple of guys on my airpark had them, and both disintegrated after a few years. Using untreated lumber (treated is too heavy) down here in the wet south, it's guaranteed to start decaying within a few years. The design might work well if the lumber was replaced with galvanized steel 'studs', like what you see for interior walls in commercial office buildings. And the design really is too complicated. Unlike a garage door which typically has a track on each end of the door, the UD requires one about every 8 feet, and a cable/pulley arrangement at each track, with all the cables turning to the side and gathered up to be pulled by a winch mounted on the side wall of the hangar. With all the cable supports (attached in the middle of the vertical height), the door doesn't need to be that rigid on its own.
If you scroll down to the bottom of the website, they show wind loads when using various species of wood to construct the door.
geraldmorrissey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2008
- Messages
- 66
I own a hanger at S50 that I bought 20 years ago and is close to perfect for me. All metal, 40'x40' tee with a Schweiss bifold door that has been stone reliable. Big enough for most light planes and 10 minutes from home. Room for a loft, though I have not put one in. The only thing I would change is that it faces north and can get cold in the winter. Though it is well insulated, it has no heat. The Washington state property taxes are HIGH. Just wish I would have bought several more when I had the chance at $40,000 each. It's my fortress of solitude.
Gerry
Gerry
Built my house and hanger in 1998. Hanger is across the driveway from the house. It was a Miracle Truss building kit including the 42' bi-fold door. In the 23 years the bi-fold door is opened most every day except on cold winter days and I had to replace the seal on the bottom of the door last year and being cable operated, a set of cables last about 5 or 6 years. Last year the electric motor died and had to be replaced. My 48'x60' hanger is insulated and the concrete floor and footer and piers are insulated on the outside down about 30"in the ground. Have hot water heating tubes in the floor and a NG boiler, and also a force air NA furnace and AC for the hanger and a separate AC for the office and bathroom in the right rear corner. Paint booth in the left rear corner.
Also have a wood burning stove in the setting area for the cold,snowy winter days and napping on the couch if Dallas doesn't beat me to it.
My daughter and dallas has the Hi-Fold brand of door, and I like it better in some ways and not in other ways. The aluminum bi-fold doors are nice but costly. The coldest I have seen the inside of the hanger without any heat on is 50 deg when it was below zero outside. The heat of the ground under the concrete floor (53 degs) helps with the heating. My NG bill for heating the 3000 sq' hanger and the 2400 sq' house just went up to 80 dollars a month. NG well is about 300' from the house and hanger beside the runway.
Added-- Before buying land here, I was thinking of building a hanger at the county airport. By the contract, in 20 years they would own it. No way.
Also have a wood burning stove in the setting area for the cold,snowy winter days and napping on the couch if Dallas doesn't beat me to it.
My daughter and dallas has the Hi-Fold brand of door, and I like it better in some ways and not in other ways. The aluminum bi-fold doors are nice but costly. The coldest I have seen the inside of the hanger without any heat on is 50 deg when it was below zero outside. The heat of the ground under the concrete floor (53 degs) helps with the heating. My NG bill for heating the 3000 sq' hanger and the 2400 sq' house just went up to 80 dollars a month. NG well is about 300' from the house and hanger beside the runway.
Added-- Before buying land here, I was thinking of building a hanger at the county airport. By the contract, in 20 years they would own it. No way.
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