What do you think about "e-soaring"?

[John.Roo]

"There is no reason that electric propulsion system and reasonably big battery should be expensive." ??????
Maybe someday,

I know it sounds maybe stupid at this time when electric cars are so expensive....
Just try to take it from other point of view.
What is expensive on electric propulsion?
Motor? Controler? No... it is battery.
And why is battery expensive?
Not because of cells, it is because of all "wiring, BMS, case and work to make it".
"Standardized" battery pack doesn´t exist so far, but some of car batteries are looking OK for our purpose.
For example...

Tesla Smart Lithium Ion Battery 18650 EV Module - 57 Volt, 3kWh | EV West

So like everything new - even electric propulsion systems are actually expensive - like first electric RC models. And actually - how many RC models are flying with combustion engines?
Power of electric motors for "big" RC models and power requested for one seat self launch glider are not far away.

So... I am optimistic. And I am also glad to see work of pilots/designers like Gabriel DeVault - this is a very promissing beginning

Aerolite 103 – As Simple As Aerial EVs Get › Sustainable Skies

Shown and flown at this year’s Sun ‘n Fun and AirVenture, the Aerolite 103 is a well-tested, best-selling ultralight that in FAA Part 103 form is a true ultralight. As an electric aircraft, it’s heavier and faster than accepted ultralight standards but no less a competent flyer registered in the...

sustainableskies.org

Check here for price for complete electric propulsion with two, three or four battery packs.

Aerolite 103 prices

But please don´t forget I am still in area of simle light one seat "glider like" airplanes.
In case of two seat long range electric LSA or GA airplanes is situation different.

 

[blane.c]

Cars will be mandated zero emissions in many states here in the USA by 2035 and possibly will be federal mandate. That is about 14 years from now which isn't a lot of time in auto manufacturing terms, much of what they will put forth then is already in the planning/implementation stages or will be soon so there has to be better stuff available now but it may be quieted under non disclosure contracts with employees with stiff financial penalty. Standardized battery modules and better ways to tell there condition so they can be swappable with a fair exchange rate. Pull in, swap batteries, pay exchange rate, go. It will be faster than waiting for them to charge and people just don't want to wait around. Also stations can charge batteries at off peak hour times and save themselves some money. Or you know hydrogen fuel cells? Maybe?

So two things "I think" for aviation, (1) we will not go unscathed from an internal combustion engine purge in the car industry, people will point and say "how come they can do it" garnering unwanted attention to us. (2) There will be some standardized battery modules forthcoming in the near future that we can all benefit from.

Biden faces pressure to drive gasoline and diesel cars out of the US

The president has touted the benefits of a boom in electric cars – but as states move to phase out new polluting vehicles his administration is pressed to go further

www.theguardian.com

 

[blane.c]

For aircraft, while powering by induction while flying in close proximity to high voltage power lines is just a funny ha ha to me the possibility of electrical transmission via invisible energy beam may be closer to reality than most are willing to believe but likely just military and possibly commercial use.

 

[PiperCruisin]

But where is all the electricity going to come from?
Time for reality-check!
Better read this article:

TOYOTA warns (Again) About Electrifying All Autos.

Toyota is NOT saying none of this can be done, by the way.
Toyota is just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.

I agree that the conversation is never a particularly serious discussion. The desire for electric vehicles, for the most part, is environmental, but where you get the energy needed to power and manufacture (aluminum, lithium, copper, steel, rare earths, etc.) this stuff is never seriously addressed. I figure if it was serious enough, they would give nuclear a serious consideration. They don't, so maybe it isn't.

On charging, had a hybrid rental on vacation recently. I had lots of opportunities to charge while taking a break or visiting something that did not involve gas stations. Never did because it required a non-contact credit card which seems iffy and I don't have one, but that is another issue.

I still like the idea of eSoaring and eBikes though. eCars, meh.

 

[mm4440]

Electric self launching sailplanes are an option now. Kind of pricy and some teething (fire) problems. SLS are the ideal place for electric flight; efficient airframe, short power duration needed for a day of flying, lower noise, more reliable, etc. It is happening now.

 

[EzyBuildWing]

Could winch-launch( or Tesla tow-launch) this eGlider. then probably eSoar for a pleasurable hour or so......then land and re-charge those new Israeli StoreDot batteries in 10 minutes!
I notice Jim Marske is developing the "Pioneer 1V Sailplane"....and his wing-books look interesting.....maybe there's an "ePioneer" down the track somewhere.....?
https://marskeaircraft.com/

 

[John.Roo]

For aircraft, while powering by induction while flying in close proximity to high voltage power lines is just a funny ha ha to me the possibility of electrical transmission via invisible energy beam may be closer to reality than most are willing to believe but likely just military and possibly commercial use.

Induction charging during flight nearby high voltage power lines will be probably not allowed. Not because of technical problems - it would be the theft of electricity

 

[John.Roo]

I agree that the conversation is never a particularly serious discussion. The desire for electric vehicles, for the most part, is environmental, but where you get the energy needed to power and manufacture (aluminum, lithium, copper, steel, rare earths, etc.) this stuff is never seriously addressed. I figure if it was serious enough, they would give nuclear a serious consideration. They don't, so maybe it isn't.

On charging, had a hybrid rental on vacation recently. I had lots of opportunities to charge while taking a break or visiting something that did not involve gas stations. Never did because it required a non-contact credit card which seems iffy and I don't have one, but that is another issue.

I still like the idea of eSoaring and eBikes though. eCars, meh.

In compare with cars light sport airplanes needs MUCH less energy. How many kWh per week we would need? With few solar panels on hangar (or trailer) is practically not necessary to be connected to electric net
Just joking.... but as mentoinned - staying in category of light one seat self launch gliders we really need very low amount energy for typical operation (takeoff to reasonable altitude and maybe some energy to go home after soaring day).

 

[John.Roo]

Could winch-launch( or Tesla tow-launch) this eGlider. then probably eSoar for a pleasurable hour or so......then land and re-charge those new Israeli StoreDot batteries in 10 minutes!
I notice Jim Marske is developing the "Pioneer 1V Sailplane"....and his wing-books look interesting.....maybe there's an "ePioneer" down the track somewhere.....?
https://marskeaircraft.com/

When these "StoreDot" batteries are well tested and for good price - why not?

Seems that ideal e-Glider definitelly needs tow hook. (car towing etc.).

Takeoff + one hour of endurance is achievable with 5-6 kWh battery (in efficient airplane).

Flying wing....
Nothing against. Just is not my favorite airplane configuration.
I prefer "classic" glider look with tail surfaces.
In my opinion - many "not experienced" and also "older" pilots are conservative.
Electric propulsion si already something new they would have to face

 

[henryk]

Could winch-launch( or Tesla tow-launch) this eGlider. then probably eSoar for a pleasurable hour or so......then land and re-charge those new Israeli StoreDot batteries in 10 minutes!
I notice Jim Marske is developing the "Pioneer 1V Sailplane"....and his wing-books look interesting.....maybe there's an "ePioneer" down the track somewhere.....?
https://marskeaircraft.com/

=small propellers are very noisy !

for comparation=

 

[John.Roo]

Exactly....
Bigger prop and lower RPM = lower noise.
Neighbours living near airfields will maybe not recognize zero emissions but they will for sure enjoy low noise End of video with Swift shows perfect noise level during Take-Off

 

[John.Roo]

I know it was already mentionned here before, however I still like the Sunseeker Duo confirguration of propulsion system
Watch from 1:45 - looks soooo simple....

 

[Bille Floyd]

I know it was already mentionned here before, however I still like the Sunseeker Duo confirguration of propulsion system
...

Eric Raymond was flying Hang gliders over the Owens valley ; long
before he was designing Electric gliders !

Bille

 

[henryk]

shows perfect noise level during Take-Off

=CRDiff. propellers can generate smaller noise !

 

[EzyBuildWing]

Sunseeker Duo is brilliantly engineered......thanks for the Link.....haven't seen the Duo before. Super impressive.!
Perhaps some mega "Wow-factor" could be introduced by having a Tesla tow-launch, where Suseeker Duo climbs at say 40 degrees after a 20' ground-roll, and GoPro cockpit camera catches euphoric gasps and exclamations of super-thrilled pilot and passenger. Vid would explain how Tesla tow-car is charged by a bank of solar-cells so everything is 100% green. Vid would go viral, Elon would love it and sponsorship-money would flow!

 

[EzyBuildWing]

Tesla now quoting for new Plaid deliveries for Feb '22. Why???
People want instant wow-factor, and they're queuing up to buy it.....and price doesn't matter.
To drive demand for eSoaring, gotta' somehow introduce similar instant "wow-factor" into eSoaring .....
Anyone got any ideas?

 

[henryk]

del

 

[John.Roo]

From Topaz (thread New glider design)

"I can remember the days when people were saying "if you're not flying 15m, you're just not serious." Now it's 18m. At the 2019 ESA Western Workshop, one of the presenters casually polled the room about what the attendees felt would be an "adequate" sailplane/motorglider for casual/fun-flying use. In other words, not competition-oriented. The attendees in question ranged from neophytes to some of the absolute legends of ultralight and light soaring, to high-performance sailplane manufacturers, to NASA aerodynamics researchers (several of the latter).

The consensus might surprise you: L/D in the 30-32:1 range, easily trailerable, self-launching.

IMHO, 18m is more for those who are interested in competition, even if it's just the OLC. Nothing at all wrong with competition, but it's not why everyone flies. I have zero interest in it, myself. My interest is in a touring motorglider, and the ESA "consensus" glider would be perfectly adequate for me, and it can certainly carry an engine and do 30:1+ at 13.5m span."

What else to say...

 

[patrickrio]

From Topaz (thread New glider design)

"I can remember the days when people were saying "if you're not flying 15m, you're just not serious." Now it's 18m. At the 2019 ESA Western Workshop, one of the presenters casually polled the room about what the attendees felt would be an "adequate" sailplane/motorglider for casual/fun-flying use. In other words, not competition-oriented. The attendees in question ranged from neophytes to some of the absolute legends of ultralight and light soaring, to high-performance sailplane manufacturers, to NASA aerodynamics researchers (several of the latter).

The consensus might surprise you: L/D in the 30-32:1 range, easily trailerable, self-launching.

IMHO, 18m is more for those who are interested in competition, even if it's just the OLC. Nothing at all wrong with competition, but it's not why everyone flies. I have zero interest in it, myself. My interest is in a touring motorglider, and the ESA "consensus" glider would be perfectly adequate for me, and it can certainly carry an engine and do 30:1+ at 13.5m span."

What else to say...

That whole thread is full of amazing things. The airplane is cool, which is great... but more important is the demonstration of so many aspects of critical thinking and evidence based decision making. This quote is a very nice and concise example of the gems found in that thread.

 

[EzyBuildWing]

MSFS now has an electric-sailplane......interesting comment about it:

The AS 33 ME is the first electric plane available in Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Created by MADoloSimulations it is in fact a competition glider that incorporates the self launching electric motor currently used on the AS 34 ME standard class sailplane.
Due to my interest in electric planes and the passion for gliders, the AS 33 ME has opened the doors for some adventures in MSFS that would otherwise not be possible to try.
The video published here aims to share the beauty of ridge soaring in MSFS, and the challenge of keeping a glider in the air for a long period of time.
May this video, and those created by others, some sharing technical aspects of this type of aircraft, attract more people to explore other ways to discover the simulation. Ridge soaring is extremely fun, and I hope my article that is linked to this video makes you want to try it.
After all, the AS 33 ME is FREE.
It may well be the starting point for more sailplanes, some commercial, in MSFS.
Once you're tried it, you'll never go back.