What do you think about "e-soaring"?

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John.Roo

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-BLDC is not 3-phase generator ?

=SYCHRONJUSE is better, but PRICY ! (f.e. EMRAX motores)
In this case seems that problem is theoretically simple.
However when you really try to produce it and connect it into existing electric propulsion system you will face a lot of problems.
I know only few really flying electric airplanes with range extender.

C42 from Toni Roth
Unfortunatelly "Hybrid C42" reported a lot of problems....

e-Genius.... but I don´t know if they flown it already with range extender.

Diamond DA40 Hybrid
Test flown, but no more news....

Non of this projects is reporting some long flights or news. So as I wrote - range extending on board generator seems to be simple, but it is not :)
 

blane.c

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How is the decision made to run off the generators or the batteries? ... Or both? Something autonomous or pilot controlled?
 

henryk

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It is still "pricey".
-try =

=russian,interesting products, RANGE EXTENDER too...
 

John.Roo

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In my opinion is actually is best way to use existing cells.
Li-Ion 18650 or 21700.
They are well tested in many applications.
Price is going down step by step.
Not so high discharge rate allowed in compare with Li-Po cells, but low C rate is alwas good for safety.

Announcements of new cells are bait for investors....
"Aviators" are conservative....

In safety point of view is good to be reasonably conservative however I am afraid that maybe we are too conservative.
Look to average age of aeroclub pilots.
Aeroclub pilots are getting old and aeroclub airplanes are getting old as well. New airplanes are typically far from what small aeroclub can afford.
Old aeroclub members are not willing to accept that new generation is different. And for younger generation of is not acceptable to stay in airfield for all day for 1-2 fligts.

If you speak to older experienced pilot he wil explain you perfectly why is airplane with combustion engine better. Fuel will allow you to fly much longer distance. Easy and fast to re-fuel etc. Fact that typical flight is "arround chimney" or "ballistic jump" to 10 km airfield for coffee with friends is normally not mentionned.

Younger generation is affected by Greta. Don´t explain me that her ideas are sometimes too "aggressive" and "eco-terroristic". Important is that we have to find way to young people. To be a pilot can be great fun life style and you don´t need to have dream about airliner pilot career.

How to do that? Simple answer doesn´t exist. I beleive that it can help to show that flying is modern. Modern and environmental friendly. But when you now show to young boy or girl typical hangar they will see airplanes older than their parents, noisy and with fuel consumption like truck.

I don´t say that electric airplanes are only solution. But change of thinking is necessary. This change will not be easy and will be not fast, but maintaining conservatism will have only one result - "small" sport aeroclub flying will become extinct like dinosaurs....
 

henryk

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I don´t say that electric airplanes are only solution.
-today=HYBRID,

and for retaired and homeless peaple I propose simple solution=

=high RPM 2T ICM +direct DC STARTER/GENERATOR +little kWh battery+high RPM DC Motor +
CR Propellers with Differential gear ...

=summary circa 35 kg.



=prospective russian DC M project (motor/generator)
 

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blane.c

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In my opinion is actually is best way to use existing cells.
Li-Ion 18650 or 21700.
They are well tested in many applications.
Price is going down step by step.
Not so high discharge rate allowed in compare with Li-Po cells, but low C rate is alwas good for safety.

Announcements of new cells are bait for investors....
"Aviators" are conservative....

In safety point of view is good to be reasonably conservative however I am afraid that maybe we are too conservative.
Look to average age of aeroclub pilots.
Aeroclub pilots are getting old and aeroclub airplanes are getting old as well. New airplanes are typically far from what small aeroclub can afford.
Old aeroclub members are not willing to accept that new generation is different. And for younger generation of is not acceptable to stay in airfield for all day for 1-2 fligts.

If you speak to older experienced pilot he wil explain you perfectly why is airplane with combustion engine better. Fuel will allow you to fly much longer distance. Easy and fast to re-fuel etc. Fact that typical flight is "arround chimney" or "ballistic jump" to 10 km airfield for coffee with friends is normally not mentionned.

Younger generation is affected by Greta. Don´t explain me that her ideas are sometimes too "aggressive" and "eco-terroristic". Important is that we have to find way to young people. To be a pilot can be great fun life style and you don´t need to have dream about airliner pilot career.

How to do that? Simple answer doesn´t exist. I beleive that it can help to show that flying is modern. Modern and environmental friendly. But when you now show to young boy or girl typical hangar they will see airplanes older than their parents, noisy and with fuel consumption like truck.

I don´t say that electric airplanes are only solution. But change of thinking is necessary. This change will not be easy and will be not fast, but maintaining conservatism will have only one result - "small" sport aeroclub flying will become extinct like dinosaurs....
Every time I bring up the carbon footprint on the forum I am either ignored entirely or scoffed by majority. I think really bright people don't want to hear it so bury head in sand. "just leave me alone to play with my toys". Problem they ain't going to be left alone for much longer. (My opinion).
 

Speedboat100

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I think the Erkki's idea of a affordable homebuilt with low consumption on electrics could be way to move economically with very low carbon foorprint. Something that we haven't hitherto seen.
 

blane.c

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Electric glider is good right now for those who want to go in that direction but for 1 or 1 1/2 people of my size. It is for e-glider like the choice between a VP-1 or VP-2 for a gas engine plane, The VP-1 works well for it's intended purpose for one person but the VP-2 not so much for two people and ungainly for one person ... a lot of compromise to get the second person in the aircraft. I remember when I used to actually fly I loved flying alone sometimes but I loved flying with someone else sometimes too. Then of course try to stuff the kids in the back and you have another problem, at some point how do you tell your children you don't want go fishing or watch them play soccer you have a flying habit? It is maybe another thing if it is their transportation to do something else and not just an end in itself.

So when it ain't just you, safer batteries too.
 

blane.c

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I think the Erkki's idea of a affordable homebuilt with low consumption on electrics could be way to move economically with very low carbon foorprint. Something that we haven't hitherto seen.
I think the lightest choice isn't always the best choice, maybe the lightest practical choice is better.

The EMG-6 is infinitely practical in my opinion for that purpose and as a low budget initiation flight and early trainer. The downside of it may be transitioning low time pilots to higher stall speed craft.
 

BoKu

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It appears the builder of the electric Zenos (using a Zero motorcycle conversion) has started a website. Not much there yet though ... and some links are not working correctly.


Maybe parts & service for such a conversion may be available soon.
He's on this forum and has contributed to several threads.
 

EzyBuildWing

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eFly electric Motor-glider is just a cheap motorized version of the very inexpensive and simple common Lithuanian glider that 12 year old Lithuanian boys and girls learn to pilot......lower vid shows how proud these children are of their piloting skills.
There are plenty of Youtube vids show how these Lithuanian Gliding Schools introduce young people to flying.....take a look:

Russian Efly 1A Begins Flight Tests - Sustainable Skies

 

blane.c

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AC is simply superior in transporting electricity over long distance's, for the distance around a motor winding it gets more complex.
 

henryk

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AC is simply superior in transporting electricity over long distance's, for the distance around a motor winding it gets more complex.
AC=good for transforming,but it work as a antenna=EM radiadion loses...

BTW=Al wires are lighter,but moore volume as Cu are.
 

blane.c

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AC=good for transforming,but it work as a antenna=EM radiadion loses...

BTW=Al wires are lighter,but moore volume as Cu are.
For small aircraft the diameter of aluminum wiring is not likely to be excessive and weight savings could be desirable.
 

John.Roo

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They are also other interesting projects of simple gliders from "east".
One seater...
920-main.jpg
...or two seater (probably never really build)
227-2.jpg
... or other projects of motorgliders/seld launch gliders
... or gliders
 

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John.Roo

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Letohrad / Czech Republic
eFly electric Motor-glider is just a cheap motorized version of the very inexpensive and simple common Lithuanian glider that 12 year old Lithuanian boys and girls learn to pilot......lower vid shows how proud these children are of their piloting skills.
There are plenty of Youtube vids show how these Lithuanian Gliding Schools introduce young people to flying.....take a look:

Russian Efly 1A Begins Flight Tests - Sustainable Skies

I am personally not against simple electric airplane/glider like
Elfy (electric LAK-16)
EMG-6 (Hangar 7 Rainbow Aviation EMG-6 Electric Motor Glider) or
ZIGOLO (Electric – Aeromarine-LSA)
I would just like to see a bit more efficient design + a bit higher performance :)
 

Speedboat100

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I think the lightest choice isn't always the best choice, maybe the lightest practical choice is better.

The EMG-6 is infinitely practical in my opinion for that purpose and as a low budget initiation flight and early trainer. The downside of it may be transitioning low time pilots to higher stall speed craft.

Yes but is has to look hot to be succesfull.

EMG-6 is not...nor was my Hippiäinen.

Current design is hot, practical and smaller in length than this Hippiäinen.

Comparison-side_2016.jpg
 
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