henryk
Well-Known Member
=some interesting conclusiones... (L/D !)
-AHOI, Martin !
What do you think about "e-soaring"?
- Thread starter John.Roo
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=some interesting conclusiones... (L/D !)
-AHOI, Martin !
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Hello pilots!
Sorry for silence last few weeks.
We were carefully preparing Grenchen, but finally we were stoped by COVID.
It is a pitty because we prepared nice flight from Czech Republic to Switzerland. Well... that is year 2020. Very difficult to make a plans.
First of all - congratulations to winner of e-Trophy. Klaus Ohlmann in Antares 20E is really a hard rival
and his 357,6 km deserve respect.
2020 results:
Looking to 2019 logbook (our flight from Bad Ragaz to Grenchen) and calculating distance we flown last year applying 2020 rules we could achieve distance 178 km. So our electric Phoenix with two pilots aboard could have a nice "fight" for third place with Sunseeker Duo and Birdy
I really, REALLY hope that situation with COVID with be better in 2021...
Sorry for silence last few weeks.
We were carefully preparing Grenchen, but finally we were stoped by COVID.
It is a pitty because we prepared nice flight from Czech Republic to Switzerland. Well... that is year 2020. Very difficult to make a plans.
First of all - congratulations to winner of e-Trophy. Klaus Ohlmann in Antares 20E is really a hard rival
and his 357,6 km deserve respect.2020 results:
| 1. Klaus Ohlmann, Lange Antares 20E, from Airport Serres, 357.6 km |
| 2. Jürg Weiss, Lange Antares 20E, from Airport Farrenberg, 204.1 km |
| 3. Toni Roth, Birdy, from Airport Mengen-Hohentengen, 185.7 km |
| 4. Eric Raymond, Sunseeker Duo, from Airport Bad Ragaz, 176.1 km |
| 5. Felix Kreier, Lange Antares 20E, from Airport Mollis, 131.7 km |
| 6. Luka Žnidaršič, Ventus 3 FES, from Airport Schänis, 123.6 km |
| 7. Marco Buholzer, Pipistrel Velis E, from Airport Birrfeld, 70.3 km |
Looking to 2019 logbook (our flight from Bad Ragaz to Grenchen) and calculating distance we flown last year applying 2020 rules we could achieve distance 178 km. So our electric Phoenix with two pilots aboard could have a nice "fight" for third place with Sunseeker Duo and Birdy
 | LSZE Bad Ragaz | |||
| Flight | 2019.09.13 15:33 Z | 1 hr 37 m (1,6h) | 2019.09.13 17:10 Z | 198 km |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Blocks | 2019.09.13 15:27 Z | 1 hr 50 m (1,8h) | 2019.09.13 17:17 Z | |
| Maximum Altitude: 3 164 ft, Maximum Speed: 180 kph, Average Speed: 122 kph | ||||
 | LSZG Grenchen |
I really, REALLY hope that situation with COVID with be better in 2021...
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Ahoj Henryk!
Thanks a lot for interesting PDF file about electric GosHawk.
I have to read file carefully, just now I have few comments.
It is interesting to see their approach to electric TMG design.
1) very high aspect ratio wing = small range for CG = crew must be practicaly in CG and not so much luggage.
2) very small area of wing = high load / square meter
3) 30-50 kW motor that is OK unless you would like to try electric glired aerotowing
4) small 12 kWh battery. That is good for price, however to achieve max. power you need 2,5C to achieve 30 kW and over 4C for 50 kW power. I am not fan high "C" rates.... I think that bigger batery would be better (20 kWh at least). Lower "C" = longer lifetime and lower temperatures....
5) 3,3 kW for cruise - that is nice. I beleive that this is calculated power withotu real efficiency of controller, motor and prop, but still nice*. I would like to see really measured results to see efficiency of used propulsion system.
*On last page are technical data claculated with efficiency of 84,5 % = very optimistic for motor and controller
Any video or "real" photos?
I found only photos of airframe...
Please take my comments like my personal (subjective) comments.
I was comparing written technical data with my "electric" experience with Phoenix D-14 and U-15E
henryk
Well-Known Member
=retractable undercarrige ? (VERY OK !)
BTW=France constructres was made effective E-propulsion on the base of LEM 200 like
DC motor= (2011)
ELECTRAVIA : electric aircraft MC30E Luciole
ELECTRAVIA : moteurs électriques et hélices performantes pour l'aviation de loisir
web.archive.org
(MC30E) <113 kg, >6 m/s ! 52 dB , 220 km/h ...
henryk
Well-Known Member
=glider with NO motor=3008 km !!!
Klaus Ohlmann - Unternehmertag
Die 500 einflussreichsten Persönlichkeiten aus dem Mountain Partners Netzwerk treffen sich im Frühjahr zum Annual Mountain Partners Network Event am Tegernsee. Der Unternehmertag bietet zwei Tage Networking auf höchsten Niveau, inspirierende Key Note Speaker und ein legendäres Rahmenprogramm in...
www.unternehmertag.org
henryk
Well-Known Member
=very glad to Yours comeback ! (in good healthe...?)
PS=
=my Fellow in selflearning attempts (MINI 500).
Last edited:
Indeed Martin.. the Windward is quite an airplane style volume with a 1seater wing glider. And on the competition.. the Antares is quite a glider vs the other. Proper comparison is quite the Sunseeker and by being closed by it show the Phoenix is quite good as the wing span is also shorter than the duo.
As on the batt. was it the reason you run higher voltage, as to lower the c rating ?
As on the batt. was it the reason you run higher voltage, as to lower the c rating ?
henryk
Well-Known Member
-higher voltage =higher danger...
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Hello!
My personal opinion is that higher voltage is better.
What is "safe voltage". Lets say 60 V? Than pls. imagine how much Amps you need to get 60 kW power. You would need 1 000 Amps.
With 400 V you need only 150 Amps for takeoff power.
And 30 Amps for cruise.
Using high Amps = necessity to use big electric cables = extra weight.
Our first electra (the prototype with retractible gear) had battery 5,5 kWh on 120 V and for TakeOff I needed 280 Amps (approx. 33 kW). Discharge rate 6C. I did a lot of flights to know that I prefer higher voltage and lower current
However even with 60 V you can get lower Amps. You just need to have in motor "more windings". For example propulsion system of Mr. Geiger works perfectly using "4 controllers in one".
www.geigerengineering.de
So I think that lower voltage systems are OK for trikes, sigle seat UL airplanes and light two seaters. LSA (MTOM 600 kg) and "light" general aviation airplanes will use 400-800 V systems (like actual generation of electric cars).
www.magnix.aero
And big electric airplanes.... who knows?
heartaerospace.com
"-higher voltage =higher danger... "
Dangerous can be also highly flamable MOGAS
We still need to learn how to work with electric propulsion systems. In past we had to learn how to use fuel and combustion engines.... so we are in +- same situation. And (as in the past) we can also learn from experience from automotive industry. So more electric airplanes and cars = more experience to share
Best regards!
Martin
My personal opinion is that higher voltage is better.
What is "safe voltage". Lets say 60 V? Than pls. imagine how much Amps you need to get 60 kW power. You would need 1 000 Amps.
With 400 V you need only 150 Amps for takeoff power.
And 30 Amps for cruise.
Using high Amps = necessity to use big electric cables = extra weight.
Our first electra (the prototype with retractible gear) had battery 5,5 kWh on 120 V and for TakeOff I needed 280 Amps (approx. 33 kW). Discharge rate 6C. I did a lot of flights to know that I prefer higher voltage and lower current
However even with 60 V you can get lower Amps. You just need to have in motor "more windings". For example propulsion system of Mr. Geiger works perfectly using "4 controllers in one".
New developments - Avionics - Geiger Engineering
www.geigerengineering.de
So I think that lower voltage systems are OK for trikes, sigle seat UL airplanes and light two seaters. LSA (MTOM 600 kg) and "light" general aviation airplanes will use 400-800 V systems (like actual generation of electric cars).
magniX
Explore motor and power electronic products; including the magni250, magni500, and magniDrive.
And big electric airplanes.... who knows?
Newsroom | Heart Aerospace
heartaerospace.com
"-higher voltage =higher danger... "
Dangerous can be also highly flamable MOGAS
We still need to learn how to work with electric propulsion systems. In past we had to learn how to use fuel and combustion engines.... so we are in +- same situation. And (as in the past) we can also learn from experience from automotive industry. So more electric airplanes and cars = more experience to share
Best regards!
Martin
henryk
Well-Known Member
specific conductivity/weight (Ohm/kg) for Al is higher as Cu...?
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Just short electric "jump" in Sweden
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Older video... but with nice smooth Phoenix landing
henryk
Well-Known Member
=BUTYFULL+ NOISLESS ! congratulationes...
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Thxs Pilot did a good job
Pilot did a good job
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Hello!
Yes, it is possible to land on three poins.
On asphalt RWY is easy to land on main wheels, on grass RWY is better to touch at slower speed to it is typically three point landing.
Yes, it is possible to land on three poins.
On asphalt RWY is easy to land on main wheels, on grass RWY is better to touch at slower speed to it is typically three point landing.
Better energy density.
electrek.co
Tesla batteries to get 20% energy density increase –Panasonic - Electrek
Tesla Battery Day is in September but Tesla's partner Panasonic let some Gigafactory details loose including some chemistry changes...
henryk
Well-Known Member
"The ACCEL battery has a specific energy of 165 watt-hours per kilogram, "
<200 Wh/kg !
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Really? Hard to beleive that ACCEL has only 165 Wh/kg.
In first electra (year 2010) we achieved 154 Wh/kg
In "new" electra (year 2018) we achieved 207 Wh/kg
Incl. cases and wiring between cells.
165 Wh/kg in ACCEL makes sense only if some special temp. management is used (liquid cooling etc.) and is counted in battery weight.
In first electra (year 2010) we achieved 154 Wh/kg
In "new" electra (year 2018) we achieved 207 Wh/kg
Incl. cases and wiring between cells.
165 Wh/kg in ACCEL makes sense only if some special temp. management is used (liquid cooling etc.) and is counted in battery weight.
henryk
Well-Known Member
=yes...IHMO
Rolls-Royce Claims Its Latest Electric Airplane Battery Has The World's Highest Energy Density
Rolls-Royce is working to build the fastest single seat electric airplane of all time. To get there, it has to solve an assortment of complex engineering problems
cleantechnica.com
