What do you think about "e-soaring"?

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John.Roo

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Electra trainer...
Electra trainer.jpg
More info is possible to find here...

35 kWh battery = 175 kg
EW is 400 kg - it means 225 kg for airframe incl. electric propulsion (of course without battery) and incl. rescue system.
That sounds achievable 🤔

Interesting to me is that they don´t use solar panels.
Team around Electra One has large experience with solar panels used as range extender so I wonder why they don´t use this advantage....
 

Sraight'nlevel

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Look here....


Of course this car looks way more elegant....

.... but also way more expensive.

Technician from Lebanon used available parts.
Solution is not perfect, but is working for affordable costs.
Thumb up for 31 year old Lebanese repairman Ahmad al-Safadi 👍

Note...
Of course I don´t believe that he can run car only on solar power from only 1 solar panel. But this is not important... His idea to think about it, design it, made it and as bonus use the car battery as energy source for his small workshop... is just great.

He is doing a great job using motorcycle batteries...not even li-ion ?
 

John.Roo

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Electra-Trainer looks brilliant.....thanks for posting the Link.....
You're welcome ;)

Electra Trainer is really interesting project 👍
Lets think about price....
1 kWh of capacity = over 1 000 EUR (price of "aeronautical" battery). It means that only battery will cost 35-40K EUR. 40 kW motor = another 5-6K EUR. Controller... 5K EUR. So I expect that complete electric propulsion system will cost 50-55K EUR.

Pipistrel offer Alpha Electro LSA for 125K EUR.
This offer include 21 kWh battery and 3 kW "off-board" charger.
Only batery costs 26K EUR for 21 kWh so in fact is over 1 200 EUR for 1 kWh...

According to info above I expect minimum Electra Trainer price not below 150K EUR (actually arround 153K USD). Realistically.... well realistically we can expect price over 180K EUR...
 

blane.c

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You're welcome ;)

Electra Trainer is really interesting project 👍
Lets think about price....
1 kWh of capacity = over 1 000 EUR (price of "aeronautical" battery). It means that only battery will cost 35-40K EUR. 40 kW motor = another 5-6K EUR. Controller... 5K EUR. So I expect that complete electric propulsion system will cost 50-55K EUR.

Pipistrel offer Alpha Electro LSA for 125K EUR.
This offer include 21 kWh battery and 3 kW "off-board" charger.
Only batery costs 26K EUR for 21 kWh so in fact is over 1 200 EUR for 1 kWh...

According to info above I expect minimum Electra Trainer price not below 150K EUR (actually arround 153K USD). Realistically.... well realistically we can expect price over 180K EUR...
Do you think the price would be less with less battery capacity and ability to cruise on solar panels only? (Provided they could put solar panels on it)
 

henryk

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using motorcycle batteries...not even li-ion


=or Fuel H2 cels ?
 

John.Roo

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Do you think the price would be less with less battery capacity and ability to cruise on solar panels only? (Provided they could put solar panels on it)
No, I think that price would be higher if solar cells are installed 🤔 You still need 15-20 kWh battery (3C for Take-Off power). I would prefere 20 kWh to have "basic" battery capacity. In case of not perfect sunny day you still need to fly with students ;)
But in their case (large experience with solar cells) would be solar panel installation great bonus - something you cannot have on any other serial produced airplane. And this could be reason for higher price.
Pipistrel Apha Electro set some price range for e-trainer. Bigger battery of Electra Trainer (35 kWh vs 21 kWh) is nice advantage, however is not "gamechanger".
 

John.Roo

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=or Fuel H2 cels ?
I think that the Lebanon man is practical. Lebanon is sunny country and price of solar panels is acceptable so why mess with more complicated, expensive and less safe hydrogen?
 

blane.c

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Can I make money selling electricity to my power company.


Just thinking to offset some of the cost to charge the airplane. If you are buying the panels to charge airplane anyway no sense in just letting them idle when airplane is charged?

 
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John.Roo

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=hydrogen accumulated(solved) in metall or carbon mix is not danger...

-direct transition H2 into P (+) and e (-) eleminate problems with electric energy production/transmision, old Li (accus) recycling...
I understand, but you are comparing possibilities of some University (or scientific research team) with possibilities of technician from Lebanon.
Point is that he is a practical man.
Solar panel, cheap acid batteries and.... finally he can recharge his small car and use power from car batteries in his workshop.
He is not requesting money from governmant for research.
He is not "waiting" for high end battery (solar) technology.
He is not writing long scientific reports why is something not possible.
He just did it and therefore he received my thumb up 👍

1657099832794.png
 

blane.c

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While I do not imagine that it will benefit the majority of us I do think that for military and transport beamed electric is very soon. It will be much like VOR in application and area navigation will be possible due to computer. To subscribe will be beyond most of our means. It will be deemed beneficial for the masses and the rest of us can suck hind tit.

Solar will be for the almost poor but fortunate enough to afford it, and e-soaring for those intelligent but not under corporate boot.

I have mixed emotions.

It would benefit general aviation including gliding if language was put into legislation to protect us or include us somehow.
 
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Sraight'nlevel

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I understand, but you are comparing possibilities of some University (or scientific research team) with possibilities of technician from Lebanon.
Point is that he is a practical man.
Solar panel, cheap acid batteries and.... finally he can recharge his small car and use power from car batteries in his workshop.
He is not requesting money from governmant for research.
He is not "waiting" for high end battery (solar) technology.
He is not writing long scientific reports why is something not possible.
He just did it and therefore he received my thumb up 👍

View attachment 127416
I agree....and Einstein also said something about someone doing something that others tought was impossible.
 

John.Roo

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While I do not imagine that it will benefit the majority of us I do think that for military and transport beamed electric is very soon. It will be much like VOR in application and area navigation will be possible due to computer. To subscribe will be beyond most of our means. It will be deemed beneficial for the masses and the rest of us can suck hind tit.

Solar will be for the almost poor but fortunate enough to afford it, and e-soaring for those intelligent but not under corporate boot.

I have mixed emotions.

It would benefit general aviation including gliding if language was put into legislation to protect us or include us somehow.
As you mentionned is previous posts.... you can recharge the e-glider from solar panels and as bonus cell (or use) redundant energy.

When you once have electric e-glider you can convert it in future (when solar panels are lighter or more efficient) into e-glider with solar range extender.
Thinking about that.... this could be a good PR for Electra Trainer. Info that in future will be possible to make modification and buy new wings wirh solar panels 🤔

I don´t understand this part:
"It would benefit general aviation including gliding if language was put into legislation to protect us or include us somehow."
What kind of protection do we need? 🤔

I would be personally happy for small "help" with weights....
For example Class 120 in Germany.
MTOM is OK, stal speed is OK, just EW 120 kg is a bit too low.
For airplanes with electric propulsion would be 150 kg EW good help 👍

In US would be necessary to change FAR 103 rules a lot, but it could also help to homebuilders with their e-airplanes experiments.

I would love to say that next logical step is electric two seater. Something like this...

Now imagine solar panels on the wings and 18 m wing span (L/D arround 40:1) 🤗
However certification costs will make practically impossible for a homebuilder....
 
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