In regards of the Phoenix, when it used a 108/80kw rotex engine, was it only needed because of the tow capability ? I guess, with only a 60kw or even running it at 70%.. like at 45kw it could be enought to take off ? Or a 60 is really needed ?
What do you think about "e-soaring"?
- Thread starter John.Roo
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John.Roo
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right.... Phoenix doesn´t need 100 hp (74 kW) engine. You can tow even with 80 hp (60 kW) Rotax. For normal flying would be nice to have engine with 60 hp (45 kW) - something smaller than Rotax 912 allowing more aerodynamic installation. By the way... first prototype of electra has been flying with 44 hp (33 kW) propulsion system. But I would personally prefer a bit more 
https://youtu.be/QlkDs9m43Zk
However don´t forget one important advantage of Rotax engines - service. Service net + availability of spare parts is really good. Another advantage - reduction gear. This allows us to use mechanically operated in flight adjustable / feathering prop. Also liquid cooling is not that bad.
I had experience also with HKS. This nice small 4 stroke 2 cylinder engine unfortunatelly needs RPM over 4 000 to be "calm" (or 3 blade prop). This engine is very good for trikes or "normal" ultralights.
And I had also experience with Jabiru 2200. This was not soo bad, but no reduction (necessity of heavy electric prop) and air cooling were causing problems. In case of TMG is air cooled engine not real advantage. We had problems to keep it "warm" on long descends during final or during "sponzored" gliding with engine on.
On AERO Friedrichshafen are sometimes presented nice engines, but prices are similar or higher than Rotax with much smaller service support.
But I am not agains new ideas
Martin
https://youtu.be/QlkDs9m43Zk
However don´t forget one important advantage of Rotax engines - service. Service net + availability of spare parts is really good. Another advantage - reduction gear. This allows us to use mechanically operated in flight adjustable / feathering prop. Also liquid cooling is not that bad.
I had experience also with HKS. This nice small 4 stroke 2 cylinder engine unfortunatelly needs RPM over 4 000 to be "calm" (or 3 blade prop). This engine is very good for trikes or "normal" ultralights.
And I had also experience with Jabiru 2200. This was not soo bad, but no reduction (necessity of heavy electric prop) and air cooling were causing problems. In case of TMG is air cooled engine not real advantage. We had problems to keep it "warm" on long descends during final or during "sponzored" gliding with engine on.
On AERO Friedrichshafen are sometimes presented nice engines, but prices are similar or higher than Rotax with much smaller service support.
But I am not agains new ideas
Martin
Last edited:
henryk
Well-Known Member
https://www.crflight.com/You are absolutely right.... Phoenix doesn´t need 100 hp (74 kW) engine. You can tow even with 80 hp (60 kW) Rotax. For normal flying would be nice to have engine with 60 hp (45 kW) - something smaller than Rotax 912 allowing more aerodynamic installation. By the way... first prototype of electra has been flying with 44 hp (33 kW) propulsion system. But I would personally prefer a bit more
https://youtu.be/QlkDs9m43Zk
However don´t forget one important advantage of Rotax engines - service. Service net + availability of spare parts is really good. Another advantage - reduction gear. This allows us to use mechanically operated in flight adjustable / feathering prop. Also liquid cooling is not that bad.
I had experience also with HKS. This nice small 4 stroke 2 cylinder engine unfortunatelly needs RPM over 4 000 to be "calm" (or 3 blade prop). This engine is very good for trikes or "normal" ultralights.
And I had also experience with Jabiru 2200. This was not soo bad, but no reduction (necessity of heavy electric prop) and air cooling were causing problems. In case of TMG is air cooled engine not real advantage. We had problems to keep it "warm" on long descends during final or during "sponzored" gliding with engine on.
On AERO Friedrichshafen are sometimes presented nice engines, but prices are similar or higher than Rotax with much smaller service support.
But I am not agains new ideas
Martin
=Yours opinion ? (moore thrust...)
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
CRFlight looks interesting. But for "motorglider like" airplane I need feathering or ideally adjustable and feathering prop
henryk
Well-Known Member
https://www.dropbox.com/s/htftd6ttj1b2emj/Dym.mp4?dl=0CRFlight looks interesting. But for "motorglider like" airplane I need feathering or ideally adjustable and feathering prop
https://www.dropbox.com/s/klghoiitqo080z4/IMG_6622.mp4?dl=0
=30 % thrust moore (the same diametr)
0r the same thrust,smaller diametr...
(electric blades controll or FES like ?)
henryk
Well-Known Member
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ky1z5jc9g3srohq/Dym - zwolnione tempo.mp4?dl=0
=the stream after CR propellers is highly focused,powerfull (no possibility to stay
in it !)...
I think ,it is virtual duct, summary much moore energy effective.
Yet I have not noise measuremants,but probably system is silent in comparation to
single propeller.
henryk
Well-Known Member
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263101599_THE_EFFECT_OF_ROTOR_DISC_CLEARANCE_ON_THE_LIFT_PERFORMANCE_OF_CONTRA-ROTATING_ROTOR_BLADES
-sorry for offtop !
https://essay.utwente.nl/63951/1/Internship_M_Voerman.pdf
https://capolight.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/quadcopter-rotor-duct/
=ducted...
-sorry for offtop !
https://essay.utwente.nl/63951/1/Internship_M_Voerman.pdf
https://capolight.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/quadcopter-rotor-duct/
=ducted...
Last edited:
henryk
Well-Known Member
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
What about to come back to TMG, electric TMG, gliders...
henryk
Well-Known Member
TMG =?
henryk
Well-Known Member
https://www.wattflight.com/electric-propeller-aircraft/electroflight-p1e/
=quick speech,cant follow...
-what propeller distance is optimal ? (second part of video...)
=quick speech,cant follow...
-what propeller distance is optimal ? (second part of video...)
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I am using shortcut TMG (Touring Motor Glider) too often
P1E is interesting project. And seems that is supported by Rolls-Royce.
I hope that Rolls-Royce (eAircraft project they bought from Siemens) will continue to develop also "small" electric propulsion systems suitable for sport aviation.
P1E is interesting project. And seems that is supported by Rolls-Royce.
I hope that Rolls-Royce (eAircraft project they bought from Siemens) will continue to develop also "small" electric propulsion systems suitable for sport aviation.
henryk
Well-Known Member
-and folding propeller, FES like ?
https://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/aircrafts/ls8-e-neo
=for unsymmetrical nase too...
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Into the dark....
5 000 shades of blue....
5 000 shades of blue....
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Looking back....
henryk
Well-Known Member
=very,very good !
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
I heard that electric Phoenix is more "motorglider" than "airplane". Of course I can start to explain why are the long wings better and why they help to decrease energy necessary for horizontal flight etc... And I know that pilots in this thread will understand me perfectly - we all enjoy gliding.
But I was tired to repeat all advantages of long wings again and again so I answered:
"OK, use the short winglets and enjoy electric Red Bull racer"
But I was tired to repeat all advantages of long wings again and again so I answered:
"OK, use the short winglets and enjoy electric Red Bull racer"
henryk
Well-Known Member
=TWO (2) electric PHENIX ???I heard that electric Phoenix is more "motorglider" than "airplane". Of course I can start to explain why are the long wings better and why they help to decrease energy necessary for horizontal flight etc... And I know that pilots in this thread will understand me perfectly - we all enjoy gliding.
But I was tired to repeat all advantages of long wings again and again so I answered:
"OK, use the short winglets and enjoy electric Red Bull racer"
fantastic !
(Vmax/Vmax=?)
John.Roo
Well-Known Member
Hello Henryk, sorry for misunderstanding
So far there is only U-15E electric Phoenix produced.
I did most of flights with 15 m wing extensions and than I decided to show also short winglets.
But practically you are right - it means Phoenix is "two in one" aiprlane due to a simple change of wing span
It is similar to Rotax version of Phoenix.
So far there is only U-15E electric Phoenix produced.
I did most of flights with 15 m wing extensions and than I decided to show also short winglets.
But practically you are right - it means Phoenix is "two in one" aiprlane due to a simple change of wing span
It is similar to Rotax version of Phoenix.
