What do you think about "e-soaring"?

[John.Roo]

I am just posting this because henryk may be interested (because of his disease) and be able to get the rest of the article somehow.

ShieldSquare Captcha

iopscience.iop.org

"X-wing type biplane flapping wings?"
Somethink like this? (I cannot get access to mentionned article)

 

[John.Roo]

I have to say that this harness system is interesting improvement.
I really think to try to fly hang-glider




P.S.
Just thinking....
As position of this harhess is still the same (only pilot can change his position), may could be possible to install on it some simple "flight sustainer"

 

[henryk]

could be possible to install on it some simple "flight sustainer"

=5000$...

 

[John.Roo]

=5000$...

Nice and simple - perfect
Do they have some website?
5K USD is price for hang glider wing including propulsion?

 

[henryk]

price for hang glider wing including propulsion

"
AeroJunkY

Самый дешевый ключ к небу! 320 000 ₽ за сверхлегкий моторный пла. Желающим приобрести или стать диллером: [email protected]

— The cheapest key to the sky! $ 4500 for an ultralight motor plan. Those who wish or become a dealer: [email protected] "

-comments on youtube...

"simple "=



(my older Fellow,Jan Popko...)

 

[John.Roo]

"
AeroJunkY

Самый дешевый ключ к небу! 320 000 ₽ за сверхлегкий моторный пла. Желающим приобрести или стать диллером: [email protected]

— The cheapest key to the sky! $ 4500 for an ultralight motor plan. Those who wish or become a dealer: [email protected] "

-comments on youtube...

"simple "=



(my older Fellow,Jan Popko...)

You are right - idea is the same.
Probably most known similar design is Mosquito...

However I prefer idea of Jan Popko or AeroJunky - that is nice sample of simple solution

 

[danmoser]

Nice and simple - perfect
Do they have some website?
5K USD is price for hang glider wing including propulsion?

What an amazingly light glider!.. claimed only 16 kg (35 lbs.)
He's using all carbon composite frame .. even the ribs.
Looks like he needs a more powerful engine.. an electric one with high power batteries.. enough for 15-30 minute climb & thermal hunt.

 

[John.Roo]

What an amazingly light glider!.. claimed only 16 kg (35 lbs.)
He's using all carbon composite frame .. even the ribs.
Looks like he needs a more powerful engine.. an electric one with high power batteries.. enough for 15-30 minute climb & thermal hunt.

I was thinking about the same
However weight of battery would make this super light hang glider significantelly heavier.
In your opinion - what power would be reasonable minimum for this kind on "motorized hang glider"?

 

[henryk]

I prefer idea of Jan Popko or AeroJunky - that is nice sample of

simple

solution

+safe ! ( the old POPKOLOT was flying in very hard wheather...)



MZ-250 (direct drive propeller=tremoudus noise !)+selfmade hang glider...

samolotypolskie.pl - Popko "Popkolot"

=SOLO 210 + Reductor...

 

[henryk]

-low drag fuselage + rigid wing...(tomorrow)

and today= modernised trike.

 

[John.Roo]

Rigid ATOS wing is nice, only price is over 20K EUR (just the wing).
In this case would be wing for 5K USD good enough for lot of fun

Solo 210 = 14 kW (and approx. 13 kg)
It means that 3,5 kWh battery would be real minimum (=+-17-18 kg only battery).
+ motor
+ controller
+ ....a bit more money

For basic impresion.... I found this advertising for system suitable for light hang-glider:

Complete Geiger drive unit
The system has approx. 5 hours operating time.
The system consists of:
New charger from Geiger.
HPD16 upgraded to current version HPD16Plus in 2021 and tested (16 kW / 20 kW peak).
Controller PI300.
SDI interface.
2x50Ah batteries with over 99% capacity. Batteries retrofitted with the latest BMS in 2021.
1 folding propeller new with normal hub.
1 folding propeller new with quick release hub.
All wiring from the motor to the controller and batteries is professionally made.
Plug and play system.

Original price of the components approx. € 15,000,-
My asking price € 7.300,-

...and for 5K USD you can have complete flying machine from Russia

 

[henryk]

what power would be reasonable minimum for this kind on "motorized hang glider"?

>15 HP (RAKET 120) is anoth to =

What do you think about "e-soaring"?

I am just posting this because henryk may be interested (because of his disease) and be able to get the rest of the article somehow. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-3182/9/3/036001/pdf# "X-wing type biplane flapping wings?" Somethink like this? ;) (I cannot get access to...

www.homebuiltairplanes.com

 

[danmoser]

I was thinking about the same
However weight of battery would make this super light hang glider significantelly heavier.
In your opinion - what power would be reasonable minimum for this kind on "motorized hang glider"?

It's an interesting trade-off... battery energy vs. battery power.
Increasing electric motor power is not much of a weight penalty, so it mostly becomes a question of what type of batteries you want for the kind of flying you want to do.

For a constant battery mass:
Higher power batteries (high C rating, like in RC planes) provide a good climb rate, but run out of charge sooner.
Higher energy batteries (high watt-hours per kilogram, like in EVs) will run for a longer time, but with a poor climb rate.

In any case, the impressively lightweight Russian glider design in the video probably needs to be somewhat scaled up to become a practical motorglider.
Something like the size of a typical "tandem" HG wing, such as Wills Falcon 225 or Airborne Fun 220.

 

[henryk]

probably needs to be somewhat scaled up to become a practical motorglider.

-todays Rigid Wing Hanggliders offer good stability and L/D,
but are weighty and not cheep...

the head problem is "D" type longeron (circa 2x 10 kg) .

IFF to involve simple technology ?=(Filament winding)


+infusion technology (65 % CF, NO contact with resin !)=1.5 kg/1.0 dcm^3

 

[henryk]

impressively lightweight

=TAXI test ?


-I try to made very light KASPER-wing...=for "Oscillating Wing Propulsion"...
(Alu tubes 50 and 45 /1 mm) =whole frame <10 kg.

Kasperwing Poland – KASPERWING

kasperwing.com

-in CF Filament Winding technology should be much lighter...
=main tubes=5 kg !

 

[John.Roo]

It's an interesting trade-off... battery energy vs. battery power.
Increasing electric motor power is not much of a weight penalty, so it mostly becomes a question of what type of batteries you want for the kind of flying you want to do.

For a constant battery mass:
Higher power batteries (high C rating, like in RC planes) provide a good climb rate, but run out of charge sooner.
Higher energy batteries (high watt-hours per kilogram, like in EVs) will run for a longer time, but with a poor climb rate.

In any case, the impressively lightweight Russian glider design in the video probably needs to be somewhat scaled up to become a practical motorglider.
Something like the size of a typical "tandem" HG wing, such as Wills Falcon 225 or Airborne Fun 220.

I would be affraid of lifetime of "high power batteries" (high discharge C rating). My RC pilot friends are changing batteries practically every year after few "flight hours".
Lightest battery pack I would use is approx. 15 kg (3 kWh).
Plus motor, plus controller.... all together would be minimum weight of propulsion system arround 20 kg. Doesn´t sounds that bad, however flight time will be similar to flight time of RC model.
Honestly.... it doesn´t mean that is bad. For fun flying arround house could be OK
(if price is corresponding to "RC model" performance)

 

[John.Roo]

Seems that prices of batteries made for airplanes are increasing again...
I understand that professionally made battery pack will cost more than some "standard" solution, however difference is enormous.
Automotive industry expects to get 1 kWh for less than 150 USD and for LSA airplane or glider you get 1 kWh for price far over 1 000 EUR.
That makes electric propulsion in sport aviation not affordable.

Solution?
Well... actually I see three possible ways.
1) try to get automotive (or motorcycle) battery pack. e-Tron or Ioniq batteries are made from +-2 kWh battery packs. Weight is higher but OK, for capacity under 10 kWh would be weight difference probably acceptable. However problem is that without good contact with some automotive producer you can get battery pack only from crashed electric cars.
2) try to ask directly some battery producer in China. I had a very good experience with GEB Battery (GEB battery). From this company we get Li-Po 11 000 mAh cells for first prototype of electric Phoenix. If you specify your needs they can make battery pack. Question is only if they accept to make 1 pce of special battery and for what price.
3) Do It Yourself. Sounds like stupid idea, however now you can get really affordable solding systems like SUNKKO 709A

It is work, it require to build skills... but than you can make small battery of shape you need and you know exactly what is inside

 

[henryk]

That makes electric propulsion in sport aviation not affordable.

Aerospace products – Flisom

www.flisom.com

-flexible,thin and light PV foils ?

(Swiss...)

 

[danmoser]

Cheap, safe, and long-lasting Lithium Iron Phosphate cells (LFP) keep improving their performance, lately achieving specific energy in excess of 200 Wh/kg at Guoxuan High-Tech in China, AKA "Gotion."

VW-Related Guoxuan High-Tech Launches Record-Setting 210 Wh/kg LFP Battery Cells

Guoxuan High-Tech Co Ltd., a Chinese battery manufacturer, has introduced this month a new high-energy-density LFP lithium-ion battery cell.

insideevs.com

This should be plenty good enough for most e-soaring aircraft.
Gotion is now establishing a HUGE production plant in the US in a joint venture with an unnamed EV manufacturer: Large US manufacturer orders LFP cells from Gotion - electrive.com
Now we learn that Gotion's HQ in the US will be located in .. drumroll .. Fremont, California.

No prizes for guessing which EV manufacturer.
Look for an announcement soon.. probably Wednesday, would be my guess.

 

[henryk]

No prizes

-iff 0 $ =what we may do with recycling problem and with Li sources ???

tomorrow=only SOLAR energy...