What do you thing about "e-soaring"?

Discussion in 'Soaring' started by John.Roo, Dec 5, 2013.

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  1. Oct 21, 2019 #341

    opcod

    opcod

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    In regards of the Phoenix, when it used a 108/80kw rotex engine, was it only needed because of the tow capability ? I guess, with only a 60kw or even running it at 70%.. like at 45kw it could be enought to take off ? Or a 60 is really needed ?
     
  2. Oct 22, 2019 #342

    John.Roo

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    You are absolutely right.... Phoenix doesn´t need 100 hp (74 kW) engine. You can tow even with 80 hp (60 kW) Rotax. For normal flying would be nice to have engine with 60 hp (45 kW) - something smaller than Rotax 912 allowing more aerodynamic installation. By the way... first prototype of electra has been flying with 44 hp (33 kW) propulsion system. But I would personally prefer a bit more :)
    https://youtu.be/QlkDs9m43Zk

    However don´t forget one important advantage of Rotax engines - service. Service net + availability of spare parts is really good. Another advantage - reduction gear. This allows us to use mechanically operated in flight adjustable / feathering prop. Also liquid cooling is not that bad.

    I had experience also with HKS. This nice small 4 stroke 2 cylinder engine unfortunatelly needs RPM over 4 000 to be "calm" (or 3 blade prop). This engine is very good for trikes or "normal" ultralights.

    And I had also experience with Jabiru 2200. This was not soo bad, but no reduction (necessity of heavy electric prop) and air cooling were causing problems. In case of TMG is air cooled engine not real advantage. We had problems to keep it "warm" on long descends during final or during "sponzored" gliding with engine on.

    On AERO Friedrichshafen are sometimes presented nice engines, but prices are similar or higher than Rotax with much smaller service support.

    But I am not agains new ideas :)

    Martin
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  3. Oct 22, 2019 #343

    henryk

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    https://www.crflight.com/

    =Yours opinion ? (moore thrust...)
     
  4. Oct 22, 2019 #344

    John.Roo

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    CRFlight looks interesting. But for "motorglider like" airplane I need feathering or ideally adjustable and feathering prop :)
     
  5. Oct 22, 2019 #345

    henryk

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  6. Oct 23, 2019 #346

    n6233u

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    Very interesting - I wonder if the same is true for a ducted fan propellor setup?
     
  7. Oct 23, 2019 #347

    henryk

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    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ky1z5jc9g3srohq/Dym - zwolnione tempo.mp4?dl=0

    =the stream after CR propellers is highly focused,powerfull (no possibility to stay
    in it !)...

    I think ,it is virtual duct, summary much moore energy effective.

    Yet I have not noise measuremants,but probably system is silent in comparation to
    single propeller.
     
  8. Oct 23, 2019 #348
  9. Oct 24, 2019 #349

    henryk

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  10. Oct 26, 2019 #350

    John.Roo

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    What about to come back to TMG, electric TMG, gliders... :)
    Foto_Petr_Kolmann_trio_2.jpg
     
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  11. Oct 26, 2019 #351

    henryk

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    TMG =?
     
  12. Oct 26, 2019 #352

    henryk

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  13. Oct 27, 2019 #353

    John.Roo

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    Sorry, I am using shortcut TMG (Touring Motor Glider) too often :)

    P1E is interesting project. And seems that is supported by Rolls-Royce.
    I hope that Rolls-Royce (eAircraft project they bought from Siemens) will continue to develop also "small" electric propulsion systems suitable for sport aviation.
     
  14. Oct 27, 2019 #354

    henryk

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  15. Nov 1, 2019 #355

    John.Roo

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    Into the dark....
    20191028_180652.jpg
    20191028_175855.jpg
    5 000 shades of blue....
    20191029_190133.jpg
     
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  16. Nov 8, 2019 #356

    John.Roo

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    Looking back....
     
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  17. Nov 8, 2019 #357

    henryk

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    =very,very good !
     
  18. Nov 9, 2019 #358

    John.Roo

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    I heard that electric Phoenix is more "motorglider" than "airplane". Of course I can start to explain why are the long wings better and why they help to decrease energy necessary for horizontal flight etc... And I know that pilots in this thread will understand me perfectly - we all enjoy gliding.
    But I was tired to repeat all advantages of long wings again and again so I answered:
    "OK, use the short winglets and enjoy electric Red Bull racer" :)

     
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  19. Nov 9, 2019 #359

    henryk

    henryk

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    =TWO (2) electric PHENIX ???
    fantastic !

    (Vmax/Vmax=?)
     
  20. Nov 10, 2019 #360

    John.Roo

    John.Roo

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    Hello Henryk, sorry for misunderstanding :)
    So far there is only U-15E electric Phoenix produced.
    I did most of flights with 15 m wing extensions and than I decided to show also short winglets.
    But practically you are right - it means Phoenix is "two in one" aiprlane due to a simple change of wing span :)
    It is similar to Rotax version of Phoenix.

     
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