What do you thing about "e-soaring"?

Discussion in 'Soaring' started by John.Roo, Dec 5, 2013.

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  1. Mar 28, 2019 #301

    copec

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  2. Mar 28, 2019 #302

    henryk

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  3. Aug 7, 2019 #303

    John.Roo

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    Hello!
    Actually we have flown over 50 hours - mostly with two pilots aboard :)



    Best regards!
    Martin

    P.S.
    Most of you probably know but....
    It is 360 video - you can move / zoom your view with mouse. It works for example with Firefox or Chrome.
     
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  4. Aug 7, 2019 #304

    John.Roo

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  5. Aug 7, 2019 #305

    John.Roo

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  6. Aug 7, 2019 #306

    John.Roo

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    And a little bit of history....
    110 years ago Luis Bleriot did his historical flight over English Channel (La Manche). To honor his memory we did 25. of July the same flight with electric Phoenix. Just a few differences - we flew over land, I had co-pilot (= two persons aboard), we did it much faster and at the end we had enough capacity in batery to make it two times more - in other words would be possible to make 6 times Channel crossing on one recharge.



    https://scontent.fprg1-1.fna.fbcdn....=cc6e8c930612a555065935f3b22a459e&oe=5DA01747

    https://scontent.fprg1-1.fna.fbcdn....=84105fa1d06dcc60d1a07bdd2a34df7d&oe=5DE570F5
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  7. Aug 7, 2019 #307

    henryk

    henryk

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  8. Aug 8, 2019 #308

    henryk

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    e-biking ?
     
  9. Aug 9, 2019 #309

    litespeed

    litespeed

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    :)
    No that is a Airbike.

    Good way to test rather than a static setup.

    Love the hair.
     
  10. Sep 6, 2019 #310

    John.Roo

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    Hello!
    Last weekend was very interesting meeting in Denmark.
    We flown there with electric Phoenix, students from Akaflieg Berlin brougth project B13E and also one Discuss with FES did a nice airshow.

    With fully charged battery I did 10 flights with co-pilots between 80-100 kg weight and in total it was over 2 hours of flight time.
    https://www.dr.dk/tv/se/tv-avisen-m...MC2UL8l0l69XtYLyAHXuUPQNF_guqxWF7Q5-c#!/22:21
    (time from 22:21)
    Nice photos from meeting are also here:
    https://www.facebook.com/Electric-Aviation-Day-110746436948426/

    I hope we will soon start with glider "e-tow" tests to show how universal electric airplanes can be :)

    Have a nice day!
    Martin
     
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  11. Sep 6, 2019 #311

    emir_82

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    Martin,

    What is the battery capacity of the phi-nix and what gliders you expect to tow?

    I am trying to get argentinian administration to add "electric motor" to the LSA rules for letting the electrics tow and give flying lessons.

    Regards
     
  12. Sep 7, 2019 #312

    John.Roo

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    Hello dear friend!
    We have 35 kWh battery capacity.
    Motor is designed for max. power 80 kW (107 hp) but actually we are flying in "motorglider mode" so max. power is electronically reduced to 60 kW (80 hp).

    With Rotax version of Phoenix (74 kW / 100 hp) I normally tow all types of gliders from light one seaters up to two seaters like Duo Discus, Blanik, K7, Bocian etc.

    L-13


    LS-8 with water


    One seater Crystal (my first aerotow in France) :)


    It means that with 60 kW I will try to tow one-seaters without water and light two seaters and with 80 kW I will try one seaters with water and two seaters.

    Problem I can actually see is not power of electric propulsion. Problem is cooling. I know is sounds strange :) Especially when efficiency of eletric motors is over 90%. But even 10% of heat is 6 kW (with max. power will be 8 kW of heat) you have to remove from relativelly small area of electric motor. Imagine 17 kg "small metal cylinder" heated with 6-8 kW. The only way is probably liquid cooling. Actually we use air and liquid cooling and next step will be improved liquid cooling. Goal is 50 kw of continuous power.

    We go forward slowly and step by step. From first electric flight in 2011 is a long journey.... But I still beleive that makes sense :)

    Best regards!
    Martin
     
  13. Sep 7, 2019 #313

    emir_82

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    Martin,

    Towing cycles are short.
    With a 5 minute towing, 8kW and 17kg of motor you may have not enough time to heat the motor mass having mixed cooling.
    Consider also to add an air vent to the motor with a door. You only need to open it when towing. So you don't add cooling drag when touring.
    8kW isn't terrible. Think in those electric fan heaters, they had 2kw and a poor fan to remove the heat from the electric resistance.

    Regards
     
  14. Sep 8, 2019 #314

    John.Roo

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    Dear friend beleive me that improved cooling is in this case really important. I am towing to different altitudes and I tow different gliders and to have electric tow plane for "real life operations" needs good cooling :)
    Don´t forget that with increasing teprerature is motor efficiency decreasing. Also... 6-8 kW of heat is generated inside. Positive is that we have solution already :)

    However you are right that for tow tests we really can use already existing version. Only tow altitude will be limited. Following week we will install TOST tow hook and... than I report results :)

    Phoenix heavy aerotow.jpg
     
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  15. Sep 8, 2019 #315

    emir_82

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    Yes, you are absolutely right.
    You have to think in all the weather conditions.
    Another thing that came to my mind is that the best efficiency rpm is not always the working rpm. So, indeed you have to increase cooling.
    Luckily you are putting the battery at only 2C discharge. If you are using the vtc6 or the 25r you have plenty of room there.
    Good luck with the test!
     
  16. Sep 8, 2019 #316

    henryk

    henryk

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    =the greatest "+" =LOW NOISE !
     
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  17. Sep 18, 2019 #317

    John.Roo

    John.Roo

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    Smartflyer Challenge / e-Trophy (14.-15.9.2019)
    https://www.smartflyer-challenge.ch/smartflyer-challenge-etrophy/

    1st place U-15E Phoenix :)
    2nd place Pipistrel Alpha Electro
    3rd place Antares 20E

    Winners flight - Bad Ragaz to Grenchen.
    Direct distance - 158 km.
    Really flown distance (ICG log) - 199 km.
    Flight duration 1h 40 min.
    After landing and taxiing to parking position we still had 28% reserve of battery capacity.

    20190915_104541.jpg
    20190913_171125.jpg
    20190913_175218.jpg
    20190913_181634.jpg
    20190913_201506.jpg
     
  18. Sep 18, 2019 #318

    henryk

    henryk

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    =my HERO !!!

    best congratulations !

    -when next E-Phinix ?
     
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  19. Sep 20, 2019 #319

    John.Roo

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    Thank you!

    Next electric Phoenix? Hopefully soon :)

     
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  20. Sep 20, 2019 #320

    henryk

    henryk

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