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cblink.007

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Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
879
Location
K2W6, Maryland, USA
I just purchased a landplot at a nearby airpark that has been suffering a major problem- residents living on the flightline without any aviation interest whose hangars became oversized storage sheds. Two are moving out, and knowing the airfield management, they (obviously) want to "bring aviation back to the airpark". Next to my plot is another hangar home whose owner recently passed, and am talking to the heir about purchasing, as she wants to offload it. Not a bad little community, and as the Mrs says, "it just needs a little bit of TLC"!

Also, it gets me into a hangar sooner to start my build. The local royalty has seven hangars at the local airport, and despite a lengthy waiting list, these hangars are full of collectible cars. Long story, but let's just say that despite what is stated in the Federal Register, local leadership is looking the other way from this issue.
 

Victor Bravo

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Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
10,701
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Today was Session #3 for our EAA Chapter 40 build, Project: JACKPOT. The kids (and parents) riveted all of the ribs to the spars with great glee. Only four or five holes needed to have a #2 drill run through them to smooth out the holes before the rivet went in, a testament to Zenith's CNC match drilled holes being pretty darn close to perfect.

The greatest news is that NOT ONE rivet was necessary to drill out... the little gremlins managed to push the rivet gun and rivet into the holes all the way, get the rivet gun straight and not angled or wobbled, and they even managed to move the ribs aside enough to get the rivet gun in place without leveraging the rib attach flanges off the front of the spar!!!

How did we achieve such spectacular aerospace quality using a workforce of 8-14 year olds, you ask? It was actually very simple... I threatened the little monsters repeatedly that if there was any space under the rivet head, or any space where the rivet flange was levered off the spar... the guilty riveter owed me five thousand dollars. The looks on their faces were priceless :)

Another thing that I really wanted to throw in was the 'personal responsibility' aspect. I made a gigantic over-hyped production out of them doing a safety and quality inspection after each rivet. As soon as the rivet popped, the moment they were going to put the rivet gun down, I said things along the lines of "Now take a good look at that rivet you just did. Is there any space under the rivet? Is there any space between the parts? Would YOU fly in this airplane with me after looking at that rivet? Can I fly over your house with that rivet?" The kid would sheepishly and meekly say "yes, it looks good, there's no space under the rivet". And then I'd say "You're absolutely right, that is a safe rivet, you did a perfectly good job... the rivet itself wasn't the important part, the important part is that you looked at it and made sure it was good, and if it wasn't right then we could fix it or replace it. Congratulations, you took responsibility for that rivet and you know it's safe." And then Id give them a big over-wrought handshake like they used to do in those ancient Movietone News shorts almost 100 years ago.
 

Toobuilder

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Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
5,657
Location
Mojave, Ca
Did the initial transition training for the new owner of the -8 yesterday. Was cut short by a dead cylinder on climb out. Behavior looked like a plugged injector since I had just broken into the fuel system to clean the servo screen and a mag check was consistent on either ignition. Forced me to make a landing from the back seat with essentially no option for a quick blast of power to fix things or go around. Uncowled, I cleaned the injectors and did another engine run. Same behavior. Turns out it was TWO fouled plugs on the same cylinder.

All good now and intend to continue the training today.
 

cblink.007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
879
Location
K2W6, Maryland, USA
It was actually very simple... I threatened the little monsters repeatedly that if there was any space under the rivet head, or any space where the rivet flange was levered off the spar... the guilty riveter owed me five thousand dollars. The looks on their faces were priceless :)
If only you saw the routine look on my Soldiers faces when I was the Aviation Maintenance Officer during my active duty days....🤣
 

Pops

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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
10,800
Location
USA.
Today was Session #3 for our EAA Chapter 40 build, Project: JACKPOT. The kids (and parents) riveted all of the ribs to the spars with great glee. Only four or five holes needed to have a #2 drill run through them to smooth out the holes before the rivet went in, a testament to Zenith's CNC match drilled holes being pretty darn close to perfect.

The greatest news is that NOT ONE rivet was necessary to drill out... the little gremlins managed to push the rivet gun and rivet into the holes all the way, get the rivet gun straight and not angled or wobbled, and they even managed to move the ribs aside enough to get the rivet gun in place without leveraging the rib attach flanges off the front of the spar!!!

How did we achieve such spectacular aerospace quality using a workforce of 8-14 year olds, you ask? It was actually very simple... I threatened the little monsters repeatedly that if there was any space under the rivet head, or any space where the rivet flange was levered off the spar... the guilty riveter owed me five thousand dollars. The looks on their faces were priceless :)

Another thing that I really wanted to throw in was the 'personal responsibility' aspect. I made a gigantic over-hyped production out of them doing a safety and quality inspection after each rivet. As soon as the rivet popped, the moment they were going to put the rivet gun down, I said things along the lines of "Now take a good look at that rivet you just did. Is there any space under the rivet? Is there any space between the parts? Would YOU fly in this airplane with me after looking at that rivet? Can I fly over your house with that rivet?" The kid would sheepishly and meekly say "yes, it looks good, there's no space under the rivet". And then I'd say "You're absolutely right, that is a safe rivet, you did a perfectly good job... the rivet itself wasn't the important part, the important part is that you looked at it and made sure it was good, and if it wasn't right then we could fix it or replace it. Congratulations, you took responsibility for that rivet and you know it's safe." And then Id give them a big over-wrought handshake like they used to do in those ancient Movietone News shorts almost 100 years ago.
Wish I was a kid again and you were the teacher.
 

Victor Bravo

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Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
10,701
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
VB

How did Dave find the kid kids, and how were they selected?


BJC

Our chapter has a very successful Young Eagles program, and we fly every month. So we started mentioning the launch of a new building program to the kids and parents that were the most enthusiastic, and Dave (Kolstad, builder of a now 40 year old Vari-Eze that is still going strong) kept a list at my request.
 

Victor Bravo

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Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
10,701
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
It seems to be starting off well, but like many chapters we have an 80/20 problem overall that is 90/10 on this program. I have sent out pleading, whining, begging e-mails to the chapter membership that we need far more participation.

Believe it or not we have almost enough "instructors" for our current workload (myself and two or three others) - what we need even more are several of the wives/husbands/friends of our chapter members who might know nothing about clecos or spars... but who can do the million other logistical and support tasks.

Video'ing the build sessions, herding cats when kids are running around not paying attention to the task at hand, making sure the local businesses, schools, car dealers, etc. are aware of this, meeting the people at the airport gate and safely shuttling them across a live taxiway to our hangar, etc. etc.

It's of course like any other significant endeavor, where your team only needs nine baseball players out on the ball field, but you really also need a thousand other people doing everything from cooking hot dogs to stamping tickets to selling the hats in the gift shop.

Another thing we've figured out very quickly is that we have to tighten up the age range of the kids we are targeting. 8-12 year olds are enjoying this and enthusiastic, but they're not as focused of course. Sooner or later we will have to get into "classroom" learning portions of the build ("here's how you lay out a line of rivet holes...") and the younger kids may not be ready for that kind of attention span.

So, typical of me, last night I bit off 3 X 10^6 more than I can chew, and suggested to my other chapter leaders that we could split this in to two components - simple quick-built model airplanes (glider, rubber) and computer simulator type activities for the younger kids to get them "addicted", and the Project: JACKPOT aircraft build for the 14-18 year olds who have less attention span problems.

The antique gray donut-munchers in our chapter will have to support this, because it's an entire new program on top of the Zenith build. Talk about herding cats... tired lazy fat old cats may be harder than the kittens !
 

Doran Jaffas

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Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
622
Even though our chapter 1236 fly-in was delayed a day due to weather, and aircraft attendance was down, it was a financial success. Proceeds will add to our scholarship fund. No scholarships were awarded last year, but we have enough in the fund to make significant awards in early 2022.


BJC
Congratulations! Nice job.
 

Toobuilder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
5,657
Location
Mojave, Ca
Ive been working with a co worker to get him his taildragger endorsement for the last few weekends in the RV. This afternoon he successfully passed his "checkride" and is now a TW pilot. There were times during the process where he almost gave up as he felt some of the skills were "unattainable", but now he wonders what the big deal was.

Good stuff.
 

PTAirco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
3,689
Location
Corona CA
Pulling apart a Husky for a re-cover. And as always, there is something more waiting under there. Lots of sheet metal corrosion on the wings and totally rusted out window channels (seriously, how hard is it to put some drain hones in there, Aviat?) and when we pulled the stabilizers off,rusty water poured out! One spar is Swiss cheese and probably would have failed in a couple more years. All fixable of course.



20211109_083722 (Copy).jpg 20211117_174236 (Copy).jpg
 

JRC

Active Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
30
LOOKING for feedback Text 813-784-4669


It is time we expand our National air mobility envelop - one important aspect is Plane Owners, operators, renters, club members… Pilot insurance.

proposed that we support a Plane Owner - operator, renter, club...Pilots insurance COOP, a.k.a. POP COOP.


These are a few reasons why, and look forward to your thoughts:


5 primary reasons:


1. Reduce insurance cost for aircraft owners, operators, renters, clubs…. pilots.



2. Safety …creates a greater joint-share-sense for improving Flying Safety … any accident or incident by a MEMBER cost all owners and pilots.


3. More pilots and aircraft owners = more EAA… AOPA... SPA…WIA… Red River RAT…members…


4. More independent accurate objective accident investigations - Pilot Training Error vs Pilot Error vs Equipment Error ...


5. When we drive down the accident incident rate we drive down the cost a WIN WIN WIN...



6. Please share your thoughts ______________________________________?


Thanks, neil


Cornelius neil Cosentino, USAF, Retired
FASTA USA


AOPA Member
EAA.org President Chapter 1660 KTPF

[email protected]

Tampa 813-784-4669





One interesting requirement I would recommend to the COOP is that it would be a hard-fast requirement - as a POP-COOP member that any time a pilot straps into an aircraft for the first time ( student pilot or 15,000 hour pilot ) - one they have never flown before - they must as COOP members review the accident - incident - mechanical history of that specific make and model aircraft...


The POP COOP would develop and keep current that data base.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
17,089
Location
Memphis, TN
No. This is why many of my older friends can’t get insurance on their planes. Lots are + 5000 hour in type. Giving more away to the insurance companies for only a short term gain. After insurance feels they are not making enough money, they raise rates. One incident that my old company had with a solo student pretty much had the company say, do you want your rate to go up for one year equal to the loss or do you want it spread out over ten? We ate the airframe. We were going to either way.

You would have to guarantee a locked in $1000 per pilot per year, no adjustments, for 100 years; locked. Any plane, any hours.

I am very against the AOPA lobbing to Require mandatory insurance.
 

JRC

Active Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
30
There are many insurance and other coops - but non to our knowledge for pilots and aircraft owners.
We changed the name for POP COOPs to to Aircraft Owners and Pilots Insurance COOP ... of AOPIC
 

Doran Jaffas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
622
I grew up ( literally ) in the insurance industry. I am 60 years young now with several ratings and endorsements spanning 37 plus years. My dad had a very successful agency that specialized in aviation insurance. He passed away not yet 60 but the business end of the agency made me dead ( poor choice of wording ) set against the ethics of the industry. He navigated that with all the integrity that he could but it made me realize that MOST of the time insurance is a required evil.
In answer to the amateur built industry I say NO to mandatory coverage. Most of us know how to work on our aircraft in the event of damage and if not the cost of insurance will prohibit many from ownership. Other insurance many of us have will cover other expenses incurred by an event and if not there are other avenues to take care of expenses not covered not including bankruptcy.
 
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