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narfi

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I went three videos deep on the video posted above and now I am stupider than I was before :/

I assume this is different than the carbon powder I mixed with epoxy for abrasion resistance on the bottom of my boat even though it looks the same.
Carbon at a nano level, so not as strong as carbon fiber in resin but stronger than resin on its own?
I assume you cant just roll a coat of resin with this stuff mixed in on each side of a sheet of foam and call it a structural part?
Could you give the abridged 'for dummies' version of what it is and what it is useful for?
 

RSD

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I went three videos deep on the video posted above and now I am stupider than I was before :/

I assume this is different than the carbon powder I mixed with epoxy for abrasion resistance on the bottom of my boat even though it looks the same.
Carbon at a nano level, so not as strong as carbon fiber in resin but stronger than resin on its own?
I assume you cant just roll a coat of resin with this stuff mixed in on each side of a sheet of foam and call it a structural part?
Could you give the abridged 'for dummies' version of what it is and what it is useful for?
When you are doing carbon fibre layup mix a little bit of this black magic into the epoxy and the finished product will be even stronger.
 

Vigilant1

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Could you give the abridged 'for dummies' version of what it is and what it is useful for?
I didn't get a chance to see the podcast, but my take from the info in a quoted section (in post 2 above) is that the graphene added to the epoxy mechanically locks on to the carbon fibers, and improves the attachment between the fibers and the epoxy matrix. The improvement in interlaminate adhesion indicates to me that strain in one layer of CF will be more effectively shared with other layers, which would improve stiffness and ultimate strength of the layup. Graphene helps the other elements of the layup (the carbon fiber and the epoxy) work better together. I've read that it improves the performance of fiberglass in epoxy also.

So, Boeing, Airbus, et al would love to reduce the weight of their parts by 10%-30% by just adding less than 1% graphene. I wonder if they are doing that? It might show up in military CF first, but I'll want to see it in manned acft from a big company before I'd jump on board. And we'd need dependable data on how it performs before engineers or homebuilders can make maximum use out of it.
 

BJC

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I wonder what the effects on people and the environment will be after a fire that burns away the resin and releases the graphene to the environment. Ditto spills and accidental releases in manufacturing and handling.


BJC
 

Vigilant1

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I wonder what the effects on people and the environment will be after a fire that burns away the resin and releases the graphene to the environment. Ditto spills and accidental releases in manufacturing and handling.


BJC
I'm no expert, but I suspect the issues are reduced if it is in particles that are at least as large as those that are normally occurring in nature. But in the "as supplied" state, many of these nanoparticles are just too small to be effectively caught and eliminated by the normal mechanisms animals and plants now have.
The environmental regs on nanoparticles are woefully inadequate now. For example, graphene is now an ingredient in hair dyes, it is getting dumped down drains by the bucket full, drying as a powder on bathroom counters, etc. I'm sure we'll see a "fix" eventually, which will probably go too far in the other direction.
 
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Victor Bravo

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You know all those TV commercials nowdays advertising huge class action suits by law firms specializing in suing because of Mesothelioma and Asbestos???

It hink we've just discovered the material they are going to be suing everybody for, 20 and 40 years from now.

"Were you exposed to Graphene while building an experimental airplane? When you burp, does your garage door open? Does your stool have the same Young's Modulus as a steel I-beam??? Call the law firm of Going, Going and Gone today for a free consultation..."
 

RSD

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You know all those TV commercials nowdays advertising huge class action suits by law firms specializing in suing because of Mesothelioma and Asbestos???

It hink we've just discovered the material they are going to be suing everybody for, 20 and 40 years from now.

"Were you exposed to Graphene while building an experimental airplane? When you burp, does your garage door open? Does your stool have the same Young's Modulus as a steel I-beam??? Call the law firm of Going, Going and Gone today for a free consultation..."
LMAO!
 

Lendo

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bmcj, Interesting question, I'm not local but perhaps someone who is might ask the manufacturer. I believe it's Diversifield in the States and DPP Netherlands in Europe and please let us all know.
George
 

Bill-Higdon

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You know all those TV commercials nowdays advertising huge class action suits by law firms specializing in suing because of Mesothelioma and Asbestos???

It hink we've just discovered the material they are going to be suing everybody for, 20 and 40 years from now.

"Were you exposed to Graphene while building an experimental airplane? When you burp, does your garage door open? Does your stool have the same Young's Modulus as a steel I-beam??? Call the law firm of Going, Going and Gone today for a free consultation..."
:D
 

cheapracer

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Does your stool have the same Young's Modulus as a steel I-beam??? "
Oh geez I laffed at that one!

My fiberglass guy does E-Glass, and there's a Graphene factory just a few miles from me, and I know a Professor of Materials, and I need wing spars ....

I got to work something out ...
 

Lendo

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Cheapracer,
What's the name of that Graphene factory, or is that just a fabricator?
I've been designing a system of Winding Caps with Carbon Tow under tension, but I haven't worked-out all the issues/ problems as yet.
My Mate in Nambour is building a 'Totally Carbon' Cub, he has a Carbon Infusion Business, and I have been helping with the design the Spar and Caps. If we can overcome the problems, it would be the lightest,cheapest, strongest and easiest way to build the Caps. The rest of the Spar would be as per normal composite Web/ Cap lay-up.
George
 

lr27

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I wonder what the graphene does to the viscosity? Might make it difficult to infuse.

If memory serves, Soller was selling something like this for a while but they don't list it on their web site anymore.
 

Vigilant1

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This article appears to be a useful broad summary of graphene use and research today:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0266353819321918?via=ihub
It briefly explains how graphene functions in a laminate, some of the issues involved, where it is being used, etc. It does contain a lot of technical info and much of it went over my head, but you don't need to understand every word to appreciate the gist of the issues. If you just jump to the charts/graphs you'll miss some improtant context. Some observations:
1) There are several ways the graphene can be prepared, and this can affect how well it blend into the matrix (does it spread out or clump?) and bonds.
2) Almost all of the studies appear to provide test results immediately after the material is fully cured. There's wasn't much coverage of fatigue, hot/wet aging, etc.
3) No discussion of industrial hygiene/health/environmental factors

I wonder what the graphene does to the viscosity? Might make it difficult to infuse.
The article discusses this a little. Graphene can increase the viscosity, but even more troublesome is the tendency for it to filter out during the infusion (it can't get past the other fibers). There are some proposed steps that can be taken to reduce this problem. If not addressed, graphene can end up concentrated in the first bit of the "draw." Not only is the rest of the part deprived of the graphene, but the section that is too rich in graphene can have undesirable brittleness.

Anyway, graphene is promising, but I wouldn't advise just buying a kilo of generic graphene, sprinkling it into your epoxy pot bit by bit, and then planning on an increase in the performance of every part. In fact, the parts might be less strong/functional as a result of the introduction of the graphene. I'd probably want to wait until I see a major airplane manufacturer using it in structural parts, then try to understand what it gives them and the details of how they use it. That's a lot of work.
 

RSD

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Because I'm a curious guy who has some space available at his factory I'm currently investigating the costs to set up a laboratory with the appropriate levels of containment, air filtration etc to allow me to safely start experimenting with graphene powder in epoxy resins etc to see what what can be achieved at homebuilder level as far as potential gains etc. It should be interesting.
 
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