WAZER DESKTOP WATER JET

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by Armilite, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. Apr 17, 2018 #1

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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  2. Apr 17, 2018 #2

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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  3. Apr 17, 2018 #3

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Wow that's impressive! Great achievement in design and making it small enough for a home shop!

    How the heck does a small unit like that pump the water to that high of a pressure (thousands of psi) with enough volume to support a 1/16" wide cutting kerf??? 1/16" is pretty big, and IMHO most people would want the smallest possible kerf for a small desktop machine.

    Water-jet machines have a "jewel" tip for the nozzle, usually made of ruby if I recall, that has to be replaced every so often. My waterjet operator (larger machine) a few years back told me it was an expensive part.
     
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  4. Apr 17, 2018 #4

    Hot Wings

    Hot Wings

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    Interesting device but probably not of much use to an individual, or even a small kit producer, in our hobby. By the time you amortize the cost of the machine and add in the very high abrasive use the cost of outsourcing remains very attractive. For an artist or a prototype shop it might be a reasonable option.

    Note they won't release how much pressure their machine uses and try to downplay the importance of that number. The only proven way to increase cut speed, increase cut depth without kerf taper and reduce abrasive use is with higher pressure. High pressure water pumps are not cheap.
     
  5. Apr 17, 2018 #5

    Hot Wings

    Hot Wings

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  6. Apr 18, 2018 #6

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    =================================================

    The Industrial ones I have seen use a Carbide Tip. Use 60,000+psi. With the Wazer, Max Material Height Thickness of 1.0" but also very limited for cutting Steel, and even Aluminum is limited to Max 1/4" and Slow. A Table Saw or Miter Saw with one of them Special Metal Blades $24 can cut 6061 over 1-1/4" Thick. I bought the 100 Tooh Blade vs the 80 Tooth in the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF9AUaEPP_g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ4hm3SELEc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC6d3k2OM9U
     
  7. Apr 18, 2018 #7

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    That improvised youtube one would be fine for Coroplast. I'd still need a huge CNC to strap it to, though.
    I'm with hotwings, probably not worth buying for the average hobbyist on a budget. I have a waterjetter 1/2 hour away, if i want a few bits cut. That would be cheaper.
     
  8. Apr 18, 2018 #8

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    For a lot of people doing small quantities of thin material it will work, but slowly, for the people Fabbing out lots of thicker materials it won't.
    You could probably Fab a larger one, but there would be some R&D to get it to be very useful. 85% of the Parts are probably fabbed out on
    less than a 3ft x 3ft Cutting area, so Table Frame say 4ft x 4ft. It would still cost probably around $3000. If you could get it to just Cut 1/2"
    Steel and 1.0" Aluminium, I would be happy.

    Myself, last 40 years, the Max I have used:
    Steel 1/2"
    Aluminum 3/4"
    Copper 1/8"
    Stainless 3/16"
    Delrin 1.0"
    Wood 4"
    Lexan 5/16"
    PVC 5/16"

    But today, I do have some projects in Aluminum I could cut in the 1" to 2" range. Hopefully, I can accomplish that with the Special Table Saw
    Blade and a Drill Press and my Bench Mill. When I get my stuff converted to CNC I can just CNC Mill the parts out of of raw stock.

    For Cutting Mild Steel/Stainless a CNC Plasma Cutter works for many things, but a CNC Laser or CNC Water Jet Cuts better Edges and Thicker Materials.

    What kind of Saw Blade do you need to Cut Carbon Fiber Tubing?

    PVC cuts nice with my Carbide 80 Tooth Blade.
     
  9. Apr 18, 2018 #9

    pictsidhe

    pictsidhe

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    Similar on what I've cut. With a bit of practice, I've 'milled' 3/4 Al with a cheap woodworking router in a ply table. It's not fast, but considering how often I do it and that I already have the tools, I don't care. Steel is combination of drill, saw, grinder. I don't usually need to cut thick stuff. When I do, I just put up with it taking a while rather than spend thousands on a fancy machine. I'm sure my forearms have shrunk since I bought a cheap electric sabre saw, though.
    I've not cut much laminated carbon. I think I used a grinder last time. A carbide blade may be the one, maybe negative rake (aluminium type blade). Suck it and see? Carbon likes to fray when cut. Apparently the best way to cut it is, drumroll, waterjet!
    I needed to cut a few feet of tin roof a few years back. Wood carbide blade in a skilsaw run backwards did the trick at $0 cost. For occasional jobs you need to balance the high cost of the 'proper' machine against the hourly cost of improvising with what you have, or is cheap. Or just hire the job out. Unless you have no budget. In which case, can I have a job?
    Next week, my drywall sander will have paid for itself, on it's 4th job. A wazer likely never will.
     
  10. Apr 18, 2018 #10

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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    Just stumbled on this YouTube Video of a guy Cutting Steel Tube and Steel 2-3" Bar Stock with a Chop Saw with a Special Blade that looked Awesome. Almost No Sparks! This one has a Blue Blade, I only see on eBay a 14" 36 Tooth Orange Blade ($78) and a 14" 20 Tooth Green Blade ($102), and a Yellow 14" ($128) for Chop Saws, and Miter Saws and Circular Saws, the Saws all have the Blue Blade. Says Blue Blade = 20 Abrasive Disc for the Chop Saw.

    Evolution Power Tools 14BLADEST Steel Cutting Saw Blade, 14-Inch x 66-Tooth
    by Evolution Power Tools
    $82.96 on Amazon

    Evolution Power Tools EVOSAW380 15-Inch Steel Cutting Chop Saw by Evolution Power Tools
    $379.00 on Amazon

    Evolution EVOSAW355 - First Time User
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNcsR-L2ASU

    I once thought of making a complete Carbon Fiber Tube Airframe many years ago but it just wasn't Cost effective, and I soon decided on the Cost of just maybe replacing some of my Aluminium Tubing with Carbon Tubing to Save some Weight, but it still wasn't Cost Effective. Every Part on the Plane needs analized to see if there is a way to lighten without sacificing strenght either by adding Holes/Slots or just using Smaller Wall Tubing. So I have never Cut Carbon. That was many years ago, and I haven't checked it's Price in a long time.

    Many of these Tube & Fabric Airframes are over Built, in other words, many weren't Designed by Aeronautical/Mechicanal Engineers, many were just Copied what others did, and many old Airframes were never fully Tested. They used the Principle, if it breaks, make it Thicker. All Planes are different, but if we look at just two I know a little about, the T-Bird I vs a Phieonox 103 is a Good Comparison. Both Planes are built along the same design lines.

    Phienox 103, makes Part 103, 254lbs with a Hirth 50hp, has a Useful Load of 396lbs. Uses mainly 6061 90% 1.0"-.058" Tubing. Spars 2.0"-.065".

    T-Bird I, 90% of Airframe 6061 1.0"-.065", some Steel Tubing 1.25"-.083", early Spars 2.0"-.065", some later ones 2.0"-.083". Also use's some 1.0"-.065" Steel Tubing and Bigger OD 6061 1.75"-.065". The New Owner don't give out Data on the other Engines that have been used on a T-Bird I over the last 40 years, but a Stripped down T-Bird I Tail Dragger with a 277UL with a Gear Drive made the Part 103 254lbs with a Useful Load of 280lbs. With one of the New Simonini 44hp, 48hp, 54hp, Singles out today, lighter than a Rotax 277UL(26hp) with a gear Drive it could be put back into Part 103 without changing anything to much. With the New 2.5lb light weight Litium Batteries out you can even have Electric Start.

    ENGINEs:

    447(40hp) Empty Weight 280 lbs. Useful Load 300 lbs.

    503(50hp) Empty Weight 290 lbs. Useful Load 315 lbs. <==== Rotax 503UL Heavier than the Hirth 50hp!

    582(65hp) Empty Weight 310 lbs. Useful Load 350 lbs.

    Indys Spec's have never made since to me.

    "Although more expensive than our other carbon fiber options, Dragonplate HM and UHM carbon fiber tubes provide an opportunity for unprecedented weight savings, particularly in applications where minimum weight and deflection are critical. Dragonplate HM tubes are about 50% stiffer than aluminum, whereas the UHM tubes are as rigid as steel. Our standard offering includes tubes with 1/16" wall thickness; however, we are able to custom fabricate these tubes with 1/4" or more wall thickness upon request."

    Carbon Fiber Tube
    I didn't see the Weight Spec's on Dragon Plates website to really compare. The Cost still looks High, 8+ to 1, Carbon Tube vs 6061.
    But I did find this info, maybe not the best Comparison of Carbon Tube vs 6061.

    6061-T6 Aluminum Tube (Tubing) 0.1212 lbs x 10ft = 1.212lbs.
    Dimensions:
    A: 5/8" OD
    B: 0.509" ID
    C: .058" Wall

    DIMENSIONS Weight/Lineal Foot: 0.0715 pounds x 10ft = 0.715lbs.
    Dimension Name Value
    OD 0.625" or 5/8"
    Wall 0.0625"
    ID 0.5"

    ===================================

    3/4 OD x .065 wall x .620 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.16 lb

    3/4 OD x .065 wall x .620 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    0.48 lb
    ============================
    1 OD x .058 wall x .884 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    0.60 lb

    1 OD x .065 wall x .870 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.22 lb

    1 OD x .065 wall x .870 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    0.65 lb
    ============================
    1 OD x .125 wall +/- x .750 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.40 lb

    1 OD x .120 wall x .760 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    1.13 lb
    ============================

    1-1/4 OD x .065 wall x 1.120 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.30 lb

    1-1/4 OD x .065 wall x 1.12 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    0.83 lb
    ============================

    1-1/4 OD x .125 wall x 1.00 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.53 lb

    1-1/4 OD x .120 wall x 1.01 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    1.45 lb
    ============================

    1-1/4 OD x .188 wall x .874 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.74 lb

    1-1/4 OD x .188 wall x .874 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    2.14 lb
    =============================

    1-1/2 OD x .065 wall x 1.37 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.35 lb

    1-1/2 OD x .065 wall x 1.370 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    1.00 lb
    =============================

    1-1/2 OD x .125 wall x 1.25 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.63 lb

    1-1/2 OD x .120 wall x 1.260 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    1.77 lb
    ============================

    2 OD x .065 wall x 1.875 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.46 lb

    2 OD x .065 wall x 1.87 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    1.35 lb
    ============================

    2 OD x .125 wall x 1.75 ID
    6061 Aluminum Round Tube
    0.86 lb

    2 OD x .120 wall x 1.760 ID
    1020 DOM A513 Round Steel Tube
    2.50 lb
     
  11. Apr 18, 2018 #11

    Armilite

    Armilite

    Armilite

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