# Wanted :186 cu in, Radial Y ; (30 hp) @ 1,300 rpm -- !

Discussion in 'The light stuff area' started by Bille Floyd, Jan 5, 2020.

1. Jan 7, 2020

### Bille Floyd

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80Lb with the E-start , is just too much weight ; everything
else about that engine , is simply Awesome !!!!!!!

At that rpm ; i bet it would go a LOoooooong time between rebuilds ?

Bille

2. Jan 7, 2020

### Victor Bravo

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The Verner is a specialty engine that offers something specific that other engines don't. Other engines offer specific things that the Verner doesn't (and can't,and shouldn't).

Just like nuts and bolts, girlfriends, cars, and restaurants... you pick the right choice for what your specific need is

3. Jan 7, 2020

### cluttonfred

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Bille, what are you building that 80 lb is too heavy for a four-stroke engine? Is this for a Part 103 ultralight?

4. Jan 7, 2020

### Dana

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The model engine is turing 4500 rpm instead of 2200, turning a 42" prop. Add a reduction drive for a bigger prop and it would probably double the weight of the engine.

That's about what a reliable engine in that HP range is going to weigh. Cuyuna (35HP), Rotax 447 (40HP), half VW (30-40HP) are all around 85#.

Rpm isn't the only thing that goes into rebuild time. Internal stresses, vibration, etc., all play a part.

5. Jan 7, 2020

### rotax618

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If 2,300rpm is all that is required, maybe A very lightweight Radial could be built using computer controlled solenoid valves, injection and ignition. It would eliminate the complex camshaft gear drives, cam, pushrods rocker gear, springs and give increased efficiency not having to drive those parts.

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6. Jan 7, 2020

### Victor Bravo

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Let's go about this another way... or, as Monty Python used to say: "And now for something completely different" -

Since you're a hang glider pilot and talking about light weight as a priority, I'm going to make an assumption that what you want to achieve is somewhere in the ultralight - powered HG - self-launch UL glider spectrum.

I'm suggesting that you allow your desired RPM specification to be applied to the propeller, rather than the crankshaft. If you allow this to be part of the discussion, then your engine selection becomes a whole lot easier and more achievable. Because there's a whole truckload of engines that are designed and proven for this type of aircraft and fairly low weight.

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7. Jan 7, 2020

### ScaleBirdsScott

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If the goal is light and lightweight, whatever happened to the Compact Radial Engines 3 cylinder 2-stroker?

8. Jan 7, 2020

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I have been looking for the same thing and been researching engines and looking at old legacy engine plans and designs. I don't have much background in IC engine design, but I am sure I could pick Pete's brain a bit since he just went through this. I do have the engineering and CAD background to at least give it a cursory try. However, knowing the long road Pete went through unsure if I am up to going down it just yet. However, being recently self employed I now have a bit more time to devote to developing aviation related items.

To keep costs down, I have been looking to build either a small boxer or 3 cylinder radial using either Citroen 2CV cylinders and piston kits or Briggs/honda clone cylinder and piston kits. Wonder if I can work with Pete to offer a 65% sized set of his cases paired to the 2CV or Briggs cylinders. It would not compete with him and fill a niche he left out. However he may have wanted to in the future... But I did do some CAD for him and redid his Crank to make it more friendly for Casting so maybe he will be willing to work with me a bit on this time depending.

Before I do go down this road I plan to buy a Vegas Karts 625 and put a PSRU on it and see what I can get out of it. Maybe with a balance master I can cut down on some of the vibration of the large single piston. Lots of ideas and for once in my life a bit of time and capitol to try a few things.

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9. Jan 8, 2020

### Dana

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Compact Radial Engines was bought by a Chinese outfit but they only seem to be selling single and two cylinder engines now. But even when it was still in Canada the radial (originally Koenig) was "special order only" with l-o-o-o-o-n-g lead times.

Seems to be me there are two reasons to want a radial engine: The wonderful sound, or the look. The sound is lost if the engine turns at a higher rpm or is a 2-stroke. The look is easier if you don't care about the sound, take three 15HP (or larger) 2-strokes and gear them (at a suitable ratio, perhaps 3:1) together to a single crankshaft.

10. Jan 8, 2020

### Bille Floyd

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Yes Light weight ! Where the biggest safety aspect would be : the
same #'s as an SGS 1-26 , (under 45-mph) ; but i could land , kinda
really Short , compared to those guys.

40 pounds Max weight , and an Hp of 27 + ; gimme that , and a folding prop, and
i can climb safely out of my buddies airport in Moore Idaho, 5,500 ASL
which is at the base of a 60 mile long soaring range for gliders that's an average
3k of vertical and faces SW. I'm a soaring junkie ; that's why Need it so bad) !!

Bille
I want a dirty one of these :

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11. Jan 8, 2020

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Im an ex sailplane and HG pilot and have been following the build of that Atos glider. Also like the atos based trikes. Im building a Zigolo for similar reasons but with much less practical performance.

12. Jan 8, 2020

### Bille Floyd

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There is an Atos trike for sale on hanggliding dot org/classifieds ; wish
i had $10-K to burn , (it's a VX) and built for tandem loads, (550-Lb) payload so ya got plenty of weight to burn . That glider's L/d is close to 20:1 ; my Exxtacy is only good for 15 to 17:1, depending on who you believe ? The same guy designed both wings . If i were using my Exxtacy build in Las Vegas , (at 2,700 ASL) i could get away with 16 to 17-Hp with a folding prop ; but i was told i Need a minimum of 25-Hp to get off the ground at 5,500-ASL. I'm not a fat guy ; but i do weigh near 205-Lb. (sad) Bille 13. Jan 8, 2020 ### Victor Bravo ### Victor Bravo #### Well-Known Member Joined: Jul 30, 2014 Messages: 6,596 Likes Received: 5,376 Location: KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA Forgive me for jumping ahead to the end of the conversation (usually the journey is the fun part), but after all the shouting dies down you are going to wind up with a Simonini, Polini, Vittorazi or other paramotor industry 2 stroke with a belt drive on it... just like all the other guys who want high power and low weight are using. Sorry, that's where the solution is for this mission. Last edited: Jan 8, 2020 14. Jan 8, 2020 ### Tiger Tim ### Tiger Tim #### Well-Known Member Joined: Apr 26, 2013 Messages: 3,009 Likes Received: 1,713 Location: Thunder Bay Kinda like this but bigger? blane.c likes this. 15. Jan 8, 2020 ### poormansairforce ### poormansairforce #### Well-Known Member Joined: Mar 28, 2017 Messages: 768 Likes Received: 248 Location: Just an Ohioan I started a thread on this idea and was told I'm nuts! Good luck. blane.c and ScaleBirdsScott like this. 16. Jan 24, 2020 ### Aesquire ### Aesquire #### Well-Known Member Joined: Jul 29, 2014 Messages: 2,384 Likes Received: 976 Location: Rochester, NY, USA Working the numbers for my own ( no details to avoid drift ) pt103 airthing, in the 35-40 hp and I keep getting a handful of 2 cylinder 2 strokes, or a Verner 3V. All about the same weight with electric start & PSRU. That's 1/3 total empty weight. ( 80 pounds ) The lower power single cylinder engines can get down to under 50 pounds or 1/5 empty weight. The paramotor units for example. Excuse me while I search for the Atos wing for sale. http://en.a-i-r.de/atos-motorisierung/ego-trike/?L=1 17. Jan 25, 2020 ### Bille Floyd ### Bille Floyd #### Well-Known Member Joined: Sep 26, 2019 Messages: 133 Likes Received: 47 The Atos will only "Need" 25Hp , to get off the ground at 5,500ASL ; and at$3K, the Moster 185+ will give Ya
27Hp , with reduction, and under 40Lb .

Me personally ---- i'm kinda leaning towards the Valch Vm 420cc R5
radial ; 25Hp at only 26Lb ; swings a 43" prop ,direct drive
and it's a 4-stroke, (i Truly, HATE -- 2-strokes) !!! GURRrrrrr... ...
Add a reduction, to that Near-No vibration engine ; it would be Amazing !!!

Bille

Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
18. Jan 26, 2020

### danmoser

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Blle,
I agree with your disgust for 2-strokes, in general..
The most undesirable aspects are:
1. Low reliability- they can quit unexpectedly
2. Low TBO- they wear out rather quickly
3. Noisy- they piss off neighbors
4. Dirty exhaust- they splatter oily reside on you & your plane

Newer 2-strokes are definitely better than the old ones, but still..

Unfortunately, the little 4-stroke engines made for giant scale RC planes share the same problems 1-3.. they might work great for a while, but may not be a very solid long term investment.

Have you checked out the Bailey V5E 4-stroke?
http://www.baileyaviation.com/engines.html
This was the 4-stroke engine of choice on the Ariane Swift'Light motorglider. . One Swift pilot told me he loves it, and thought it was very reliable, but I have no real data on how long they last.
It's a souped-up 195cc single revving at 8,000RPM, with 3.19:1 PSRU included.
20.5hp, under 40 lb. even with electric start option. .. Not cheap ~\$4,000

19. Jan 26, 2020

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The Eos is supposed to be better than the Bailey but its not available yet. The Bailey is hard to find in the USA, unless you know of a few distributors?

20. Jan 26, 2020

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