Waiex versus Sonex Tail Design?

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rrruuunnn

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Are there any advantages with the Y tail or is this completely cosmetic?
 
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rrruuunnn

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I was thinking that the traditional tail has only one dedicated elevator and one dedicated rudder. If the elevator was disabled suppose a cable problem that would be catasrophic.

Where as a Y tail has two seperate fins to control the rudder and the elevator. If one failed there would still be partial rudder or elevator control left.

Would not the Y tail have a bit more redundancy?
 

skeeter_ca

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I haven't seen the plans for the Y-tail but i would think they are not totally indepenant systems. The lower rudder probably works off the cable system for the V-tail portion. If you lose any of the cables to the mixer all control to pitch and yaw might be lost. Do you have any plans that show the left and right run indepentant from each other?
 

TerryM76

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Has anyone converted a straight-tail Sonex to a Y-Tail Waiex?

Just wondering if someone could buy the Sonex plans and then buy the Waiex Y-Tail kit, B-Model conversion kit and end up with a hydrid of sorts with some kit parts and some scratch built.
 

Victor Bravo

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Consider the required monkey motion and hardware and number of potential failure points that come with the V-tail or Y-tail control mixer. There also MAY be some additional friction or control force associated with a mixer that you would not have otherwise.
 

Daleandee

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I'm most likely a lone wolf here but I do not like the look of the "Y" tail (or "V" tail) on an airplane.

As far as the difference in handling I can't comment from experience as the four Sonex aircraft I have flown all have had the correct standard tail on them. There are Sonex owners that say there is no difference and other owners that are adamant that the "Y" tail does not have as much authority in crosswinds as the standard tail and some note that the "Y" tail tends to hunt a bit in cruise. Others say not. Don't know who to believe.

I do know that the only structural failure of a Sonex aircraft was the tail coming off of a "Y" tail Waiex. But know that the airplane was over stressed by the pilot, poorly built, and the tail was redesigned quickly after that accident. More information here:

https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=52467

As for the control of the "Y"tail ... here is a video that may help you understand the "mixer" set up in the tail:


What Barnie noted above was something I had on a biennial flight review. The Instructor said, "the stick is locked, land the airplane." Power, rudder, and trim works well. He did not make me actually set the airplane on the pavement but it was plain that I had the runway made. Fun!

Dale
N319WF
 
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TerryM76

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Thank you for posting that.....

I've liked V-tails for as long as I can remember........I guess its the same old debate of Ford vs Chevy, Ginger vs Mary Ann, etc.

I was really asking if it was feasible to retrofit the Y-Tail and buy the necessary piece parts from Sonex.

Anyway....I like your adaptation of the Corvair to this airframe.
 

BJC

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Ginger vs Mary Ann, ...
I reject the premise, and select “both”.

We have Bonanza and Debonaire drivers here; ultimately, they agree that the Debonaires (later also called Bonanzas) go much straighter through the air.


BJC
 

lr27

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We have some of these issues in the model world. For a long time, many v-tailed models were designed so that the projected areas of the tail surfaces viewed from the side or from above were the same as the real areas of a conventional tail. This wasn't enough and resulted in some nasty handling quirks. OTOH, I've had v-tail models that were designed correctly that handled the same as equivalent models with conventional tails. (Except when putting them into a small car.)
 

Alan_VA

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V-tail: I understand how a pure pitch angle is generated (both moveable surfaces go either up or down). And, I built a ship with dual canted rudders, so I understand how differential lift can create a yaw moment. How does the mixer simultaneous generate pitch and yaw moment?
 

FritzW

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I was really asking if it was feasible to retrofit the Y-Tail...
I think the basic fuselage is the same on both versions but retrofitting a Waiex tail on an already built Sonex would be a big project. It might be easier to take the whole fuselage tail cone off and build a new one.

...and buy the necessary piece parts from Sonex.
I think your biggest challenge would be trying to get parts from Sonex.

Just wondering if someone could buy the Sonex plans and then buy the Waiex Y-Tail kit, B-Model conversion kit and end up with a hydrid of sorts with some kit parts and some scratch built.
I don't know about the "B-Model conversion kit", but the rest of your idea (Sonex plans and Waiex tail parts) sounds like it would work fine. ...if you can get the parts from sonex
 

lr27

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Alan,
If you poke around the net, you can find a picture of a v-tail mix mechanism by Leeon Davis. It's pretty simple and it doesn't take long to figure out how it works.

Simultaneous pitch and yaw can be achieved by moving the control surface of only one side of the vee.
 

TerryM76

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I sent Sonex an email on Thursday, basically asking them the same question. I would like to see if they would consider that option to give builders more choices and maybe have a "short-kit" version available.
 

Daleandee

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I would like to see if they would consider that option to give builders more choices and maybe have a "short-kit" version available.
I wouldn't hold my breath. The Sonex "model A" with conventional tail can still be scratch built from very detailed plans. Any other model is a kit that comes with "assembly" type instructions. From all I understand, if you want a Waiex you have to buy it as a kit and put it together. The original models are no longer available but AFAIK all the parts from the turtle deck rearward are the same in the earlier and later models.

So my best to you for inquiring and I'd love to be wrong ...

Dale
N319WF
 

TerryM76

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I got an email response back from Sonex today. It's like you said, if you want a Waiex it will be in kit form due to the need for Sonex to keep track of kit serial numbers. They do not offer the option of retrofitting a Y-tail to a straight tail Sonex......

Now if I could locate a kit that is no longer wanted......but I do like to fabricate parts.
 

Jerry Fischer

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Winder, GA
I'm most likely a lone wolf here but I do not like the look of the "Y" tail (or "V" tail) on an airplane.

As far as the difference in handling I can't comment from experience as the four Sonex aircraft I have flown all have had the correct standard tail on them. There are Sonex owners that say there is no difference and other owners that are adamant that the "Y" tail does not have as much authority in crosswinds as the standard tail and some note that the "Y" tail tends to hunt a bit in cruise. Others say not. Don't know who to believe.

I do know that the only structural failure of a Sonex aircraft was the tail coming off of a "Y" tail Waiex. But know that the airplane was over stressed by the pilot, poorly built, and the tail was redesigned quickly after that accident. More information here:

https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=52467

As for the control of the "Y"tail ... here is a video that may help you understand the "mixer" set up in the tail:


What Barnie noted above was something I had on a biennial flight review. The Instructor said, "the stick is locked, land the airplane." Power, rudder, and trim works well. He did not make me actually set the airplane on the pavement but it was plain that I had the runway made. Fun!

Dale
N319WF
I watched The Bonanza arrival several years ago at OSH and every V tail had difficulty with alignment in a moderate crosswind compared to the straight tail version, so personally, I prefer the straight tail
 
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