Victa (Australia) Airtourer 100 (Cont. O-200 powered)?

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Lois

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Mid 1960s. Anyone have any experience or insight into?
victa.jpg
 
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Mad MAC

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Short stubby wing for smoothish flying in turbulent conditions. Needs more power or to live in a permanently cold country. Best ones had 160 hp, would probably love a Rotax 915.

They have a singe stick in the middle. TC held by the airtour club Home
ANNLDG4.JPG
 

Lois

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Short stubby wing for smoothish flying in turbulent conditions. Needs more power or to live in a permanently cold country. Best ones had 160 hp, would probably love a Rotax 915.

They have a singe stick in the middle. TC held by the airtour club Home
ANNLDG4.JPG
One stick... Okay, that's like the Aeronca C-3, or two seat Bensens... But those only have a single throttle

:) I guess they expect you to play with the power twice as much as you would steer... :)

The temperature here was -10 C (14 F) this morning. Too cold to be removing 100 inspection panels, but what can you do? Normal range is 0 C (32 F) January low to 30 C (86 F) July high. C-90s and O-200s do just fine at +/- 700 ft AMSL as do C-75s in lighter airframes.
 

pylon500

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Mid 1960s. Anyone have any experience or insight into?
View attachment 120802
I think your picture is the wooden prototype of the Millicer Airtourer, which became the Victa Airtourer here in Australia.
I think this prototype had an 0-200, but most Australian production aircraft had an 0-235.
Aircraft had a convoluted manufacturing history and a range of improvements over the years.
Reasonable short field performance for it's power, and aerobatic, hve a look here;
 

Lois

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The one I am working on is buried in the back of a semi-heated hangar. The posted photo is of VH-FMM c/n 0 from the web. It actually has a C-85, but being wood it is a lot lighter than the production craft. According to the Airtourer club out of the first 170 constructed in Australia, 103 (including the one here) were built with Rolls-Royce (Aus.) manufactured Continental O-200s. There were 45 built with Lycoming O-235s (interestingly this airplane had a two sided printed performance chart in the map pocket with 100 hp on one side and 115 on the other-- as set up that extra 15 hp was used to improve takeoff and climb). and 22 were built with 150/160 hp (fixed or c-s prop) O-320s. None of the 80 NZ built airplanes had 100 hp engines (or is that "motors").
 

Lendo

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Lois, I'm guessing your US based, I'm in Australia.
My own design is similar to the Specifications of the Victa Airtourer, designed by Henry Millicer- Pylon is correct. It is a reliable design but would be lighter in Carbon to meet the Light Sport (LS) specs. My own design has similar specs but is a Tandem designed for LS, in Carbon. The Wing is bigger but so too is the weight, it was interesting to do a comparison.
George
 

Lois

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It would be interesting to compare the dates of when Piper owned it, to when the Papoose came out...
View attachment 121038
Air Progress Article: Cessna evaluated it for a while, sold it to Piper. They evaluated for over a year before they sold it to Mira Slovak in 1967.
AirHistory.net - N6300V aircraft photos: Cessna bought this Airtourer in 1964 for evaluation in the US, and later sold to Piper before being sold to Mira Slovak. In 1983 it was re-engined with a Lycoming O-290 engine of 140 hp in the Experimental category. Registration cancelled 21 June 2012. (Photo from 2007)
(NOTE: While in US was always operated in the Experimental Category as there is no ATC, and no reciprocity.)
sad.jpg
So the Papoose first flew in '62. AFTER the Airtourer, but BEFORE Piper bought one in '64.
Both with Lycoming O-235s (115 hp)
Airtourer -- Papoose (manual / wikipedia) (Production a/c offered for sale / Factory Prototype)
20 ft 9 in -- 20 ft 8 in Long
26 ft 0 in -- 25 ft 0 in Span
7 ft 0 in -- 7 ft 1 in High
120 sq ft -- 110 sq ft Area
1,650 lb -- 1,500 lb Gross
1080 lb -- 803.5 lb Empty
127 mph -- 130 mph Max Cruise
 
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Lois

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Lois, I'm guessing your US based, I'm in Australia.
My own design is similar to the Specifications of the Victa Airtourer, designed by Henry Millicer- Pylon is correct. It is a reliable design but would be lighter in Carbon to meet the Light Sport (LS) specs. My own design has similar specs but is a Tandem designed for LS, in Carbon. The Wing is bigger but so too is the weight, it was interesting to do a comparison.
George
If all goes well I will weigh it tomorrow...
 

Lois

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If all goes well I will weigh it tomorrow...
Empty it's 1033 pounds. As weighed, cleaned up and drained of drainable oil and fuel in flight attitude, on three trustworthy but not certified scales.

That is 47 pounds less than the weight in the owners manual-- but it's missing all radios, some avionics, a couple of inspection plates, the carpet, and whatever life forms were living in the carpet.
 
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hohocc

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I flew an Airtourer 115 (0-235) for roughly 100 hours back in the 90s. Really nice little aeroplane with a few interesting features.
As noted it has a centre stick, looks odd initially but after a short time feels normal, and means your legs are pretty comfortable. If not flying you can sit your feet on top of the rudder cross bar which is a fantastic footrest.
Has ailerons and flaps but they all move together to some degree so could be called flaperons. Great roll rate when compared to other similar aged/powered trainers, and it is aerobatic.
Pop rivet construction, looks a bit different but the Aussies certified it so the numbers obviously work.
Fuel tank is a rubber bag under the seat, dipstick access is from the fuse side low down at the wing root, and the dipstick is an absolutely hilarious bent thing to allow it to go down a curved tube.
Quite a poor useful load for aerobatics from memory.
Stall buffet-shakes more than a wet dog so there's no excuse for not knowing what's happening. Very docile in the stall in terms of wing drop, but more than happy to sit there with the stick hard back while the VSI winds up to several thousand fpm rate of descent so I suspect they probably have many more very hard landing occurrences than stall/spin incidents.
Hand operated brakes (no problem after you adjust), and fixed seat with adjustable rudder pedals. Make sure both pedals get adjusted the same...
That's all I can remember for now, overall I absolutely loved it and would love to fly one again.
 

Lois

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I flew an Airtourer 115 (0-235) for roughly 100 hours back in the 90s. Really nice little aeroplane with a few interesting features.
This one is a 100 hp, but from what I see on the performance tables the extra hp was used to offset DA on takeoff and climb, and the Upper Midwest USA has neither mountains or high DAs. (I wish I'd lived back when aeroplanes were regulars at aerodromes and airfields were fields.)
As noted it has a centre stick, looks odd initially but after a short time feels normal, and means your legs are pretty comfortable. If not flying you can sit your feet on top of the rudder cross bar which is a fantastic footrest. Has ailerons and flaps but they all move together to some degree so could be called flaperons. Great roll rate when compared to other similar aged/powered trainers, and it is aerobatic.
I'd almost call it two sticks permanently joined side by side on a single shaft. As long as you don't swap seats back and forth I imagine you get used to the outboard throttles. On this one the outer panels are flaperons with a mixing lever and the inner panels are pure flaps. Only those anointed with four bars possess the requisite knowledge to operate them :) so whomever sits on the right has no lever.
Pop rivet construction, looks a bit different but the Aussies certified it so the numbers obviously work. Fuel tank is a rubber bag under the seat, dipstick access is from the fuse side low down at the wing root, and the dipstick is an absolutely hilarious bent thing to allow it to go down a curved tube. Quite a poor useful load for aerobatics from memory.
I like the placement of the fuel tank for CG. The manual says 1550 gross, with no baggage, and no more than 425 pounds of combined people and fuel for aerobatics. (Apparently Aussies are also more svetle than Americans weighing 164 pounds to our 170. :) ) Normal is 1650 pounds, -- 1033 -- 328 -- 11 -- 201 is 1573 leaving 77 or so for radios, a couple gauges, and bags (100 lb limit).
Stall buffet-shakes more than a wet dog so there's no excuse for not knowing what's happening. Very docile in the stall in terms of wing drop, but more than happy to sit there with the stick hard back while the VSI winds up to several thousand fpm rate of descent so I suspect they probably have many more very hard landing occurrences than stall/spin incidents. Hand operated brakes (no problem after you adjust), and fixed seat with adjustable rudder pedals. Make sure both pedals get adjusted the same...
I like the way the spring steel gear attach to the (mono) spar, looks real sturdy. Older Bellancas and others have fixed seats and adjustable pedals. Cessna probably wishes they had done that.
That's all I can remember for now, overall I absolutely loved it and would love to fly one again.
Haven't flown it yet... Will let ya know (but while I like some more than others I haven't ever "not enjoyed" flying anything. :) )
 
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hohocc

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The two sticks on a single shaft thing makes a lot of sense, can see where you are coming from for sure.
From memory the flight manual had a limitation on solo flight from the left seat only (probably for reaching the flap lever on the left), I was never tempted to disobey it, but flew occasionally from the left, and mostly right for instruction. The changing hands was no more significant (to me) than in any other aircraft.
Performance wise, all my flying was in one individual aircraft, in New Zealand where we generally don't have much elevation (highest public airfield I can think of is about 2500'), and generally moderate to cool temps. So it's a limited case sample.
Really interesting that your flaps are just flaps. Again since I flew one aircraft I assumed they were all the same as control system mods would have been expensive, clearly there was some evolution.
I'm sure you will enjoy it. Certainly has it's quirks but they are neither good or bad, just personality traits.
 

Lendo

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Lois, 100 hp is a bit low for that weight, it may be a bit lethargic on hot days. I would be happier with 115 hp to 125 hp for performance in all circumstances.
Just be aware of the limits of that 100 hp.
George
 

Lois

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Thank you (seriously) for your concern. I am very well acquainted with older designs that depend upon lift rather than power. The Airknockers used 113 cubic inches to lift two people, lots of stranded wire, and eight gallons of pump gas into the sky. An acquaintance has a Briggs and Stratton "V" powered replica. The earliest Taylor Cubs benefited greatly from the "revolutionary" 40 hp 115 cubic inch Continental. I have flown an E-2 replica with that little noisemaker. My Culver is 1305 pounds gross behind 75 hp, 170 cubic inches. The ubiquitious (in the US at least) Cessna 150 is an identical 1650 pounds gross behind the same 100 hp O-200. And the Airtourer is a darn sight less "draggy."

It's winter here on the other side of "the line." The high was zero and the low -9 C. Tomorrow will be warmer they say - 6 to +2, at 624 ft AMSL density altitude prolly won't be an issue. Keeping the oil fluid... Well. that's another story.
 

tonys

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Melbourne, Australia
Hi Lois. I am the historian of the Airtourer Association, and can help point you to people and detailed information. Our historical records seem to indicate that there's only one Airtourer in the US, which is N6300V. The photo below is Victa Airtourer 115 N4530Y, which was purchased by Piper, but for some reason was not delivered, and was re-directed to a New Guinea owner. If you have a Victa Airtourer 100, can you advise which constructor's number it is?1659506519631.png
 
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