VH-SRS 170 knot Sonerai II

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sming

Well-Known Member
The risen did a south atlantic crossing : Fly Risen Challenger En
I have not found the amount of fuel burned but it must be quite effecient for such long flights.

200kph on 6L... that's something.
From my hometown : 188kph @ 6.8L, diesel!

Robin Austin

Member
The risen did a south atlantic crossing : Fly Risen Challenger En
I have not found the amount of fuel burned but it must be quite effecient for such long flights.

200kph on 6L... that's something.
From my hometown : 188kph @ 6.8L, diesel!
It’s clear that the Risen is an efficient aircraft, but....The bit that miffs me is when manufacturers (many) claim a Rotax 912 in their airframe uses 2 1/2 litres per hour less at 75% than Rotax Engineers and technical specs claim (or 912s actually use), as Risen do in their specs sheet.
I’m unsure if they believe that is a mark of airframe efficiency for the lazy reader, or they just think all customers are stupid.
A Rotax, or any motor for that matter, uses the same fuel at 75% whatever airframe it’s in. I just don’t get the logic.

Regarding your local plane, thank you so much for that link. Lots of info to digest, although something wrong with the writing, I can’t read it .
Funny, I can’t remember what I had for lunch but can recall my only language subject of 52 years ago and can still remember enough to get by.
Photos are beautiful and I look forward to trying to read it in full.
Merci!

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sming

Well-Known Member
The bit that miffs me is when manufacturers (many) claim a Rotax 912 in their airframe uses 2 1/2 litres per hour less at 75% than Rotax Engineers and technical specs claim (or 912s actually use), as Risen do in their specs sheet.
Yeah, well marketing. They all trying to sell 150K€+ aircraft to the public (which one?? I'm unfortunatly not in that taxes bracket...), they all made of carbon fiber, weight the same, use the same engine and therefore have almost the same performance, so they have to lie through their teeth to get people to pay attention?

BJC

Robin Austin

Member
Ha ha.
I think you have an uncanny knack of explaining the funny world we find ourselves in with unusual amount of forthrightness, insight and elegance.
Thanks for explaining these oddities to me again.

Robin Austin

Member
The risen did a south atlantic crossing : Fly Risen Challenger En
I have not found the amount of fuel burned but it must be quite effecient for such long flights.

200kph on 6L... that's something.
From my hometown : 188kph @ 6.8L, diesel!
That’s one interesting plane from your hometown.
I love the concept of flying at good speeds on such a low hp engine and available at a price us mere mortals can afford. For me that’s much more elegant than just stuffing extra hp in. Well done to the Gazaile folks.
and thanks for the link.

TFF

Well-Known Member
Very nice plane. Sitting in the US, it’s a bit of a perplexing marriage and it shouldn’t be. I think why it hasn’t been done before is two fold. One, the traditional Sonerai owner is too cheap to put a Rotax on their plane. They are invested in the VW or nothing. I know of at least one A65 and a Lycoming O-145, but no 100 hp engines. The other is the Cassutt. For non racing, stuffing a Lycoming in seems to scratch the itch. Maybe this can start a renaissance for the Sonerai that alternate engines work.

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
One, the traditional Sonerai owner is too cheap to put a Rotax on their plane. They are invested in the VW or nothing. I know of at least one A65 and a Lycoming O-145, but no 100 hp engines.
I saw a nice looking O-200 powered single seat Sonerai in Tullahoma, TN, circa 1982. Nice looking airplane.

BJC

TarDevil

Well-Known Member
the traditional Sonerai owner is too cheap to put a Rotax on their plane.
True, but I don't consider that a negative. If the homebuilding community doesn't experiment to find "cheap" means to fly, it abandons the very impetus that started it all.

sming

Well-Known Member
Well done to the Gazaile folks.
and thanks for the link.
Thanks for the kind words, i'll forward them to the designer
Btw, can the sonerai accommodate a 100Kg engine in the front? It would look pretty good with an inline 4

Robin Austin

Member
Thanks for the kind words, i'll forward them to the designer
Btw, can the sonerai accommodate a 100Kg engine in the front? It would look pretty good with an inline 4
With the fuel tank relocated to the back, and soloing from the rear as is the norm, I’m almost certain that could be made work. Now get to work on the W&B spreadsheet ha ha.

Robin Austin

Member
Very nice plane. Sitting in the US, it’s a bit of a perplexing marriage and it shouldn’t be. I think why it hasn’t been done before is two fold. One, the traditional Sonerai owner is too cheap to put a Rotax on their plane. They are invested in the VW or nothing. I know of at least one A65 and a Lycoming O-145, but no 100 hp engines. The other is the Cassutt. For non racing, stuffing a Lycoming in seems to scratch the itch. Maybe this can start a renaissance for the Sonerai that alternate engines work.
Hi TTF. Just curious! I find it perplexing that you find it perplexing. Seems like a natural fit to me!?!?
There are at least 5 Rotax powered Sonerais in Australia. That is probably one third of the fleet.
This is not a negative comment, just that despite US folks liking US engines, there’s still plenty of Rotaxes in US right? I’m just intrigued enough to querie further so I understand the sentiment better. Ha ha. Thanks.
Robin

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
FWIW, I see lots of Rotax engines in LSA aircraft in the USA, including kit built and factory built, but very few (actually, as I type this, I don't recall any) in plans built E-AB. The lightened O-200 never seemed to catch on in either category.

BJC

Bill-Higdon

BJC in EAA 292 we have a Zenith 701, Kolb MK!!, Thursday I say the senior designee doing a Rotax mandated 5 year in$pection on a Pulsar, so they're out there just kind of flying "under the radar" I quess TFF Well-Known Member As many Rotaxes that are out there, it’s kind of the red headed step child of engines in the US. I work on an AirCam with two so I have history of about 15 years with them. For a broad generalization, If your not under 40, you don’t want a Rotax in the US. There was a cool transient Petrel LS on the ramp last week. That day two Rotax planes at my airport of 100 airplanes. I know there are a couple to the airport to the north about ten miles of about 100 planes. I know of about ten within a 100 miles. I don’t think they are bad, but not many vote with their dollars to get them. Most of it is the US plays their own game ball and the rest of the world plays with theirs. A US plane with a different world engine is a strange concept here, even if it makes sense. Its a VW airplane, and it will take a lot to change that. Your speed might possibly change that. BJC Well-Known Member HBA Supporter BJC in EAA 292 we have a Zenith 701, Kolb MK!!, Thursday I say the senior designee doing a Rotax mandated 5 year in$pection on a Pulsar, so they're out there just kind of flying "under the radar" I quess
Yes, I forgot about the 701. Saw a green one at Oshkosh a few years ago. Had breakfast with the owner a few times. Nice guy.

BJC

TFF

Well-Known Member
I know someone with a green 701 and he is included in the 912s I know. Pretty shady character.

Bill-Higdon

Well-Known Member
Also lots of RV-9's use the 912, 292 has 3 right now

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
All of the (LSA) RV-12’s use the 912, but I never have seen a -9 with a Rotax.

BJC

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TFF

Well-Known Member
300 seems like a lot, but I think in Germany there are 15,000 912s flying. The rest of the would funnel fun flying into LSA type flying, where cheap fuel and cheap Legacy airplanes is cheaper flying planes in the US than LSA is in the rest of the world.

Robin Austin

Member
Thanks for all the input. A huge cultural lesson! I knew there was a transition from Europe (Rotax) to US (traditional) but didn’t realise it was that prevalent.
Fascinating !
Cheers.