Thanks Bill for the kind comments. Appreciated.I like this remake of the Sonerai. It deals with some of the issues the design had inherent, without performance penalty, and adapts another power alternative.
Looks like a good combination you have come up with. Do you have drawings or instructions avialable that if someone where to build they could use as a guide?
=65-312 km/h !!!
That air conditioned, well lighted, custom hangar/workshop trailer is most interesting. It probably preserves from corrosion better than most hangars!
What is the inside and overall outside trailer width?
Thanks for sharing that video. Very futuristic and exciting for sure!
Just a couple of things. The claimed performance vs fuel economy sound fantastic. Problem is, they fall way outside what even Rotax can manage. Is any of this third party verified? Perhaps they can challenge the current FAI world record for fuel efficiency. According to their numbers, this would be a cinch. And it would surely drive sales.
Sorry if I sound cynical, but I have read these sort of claims so many times, I’m over it.
Also, with a standard pilot and fuel, the passenger can only weigh 25Kg.
Or with 2 standard size occupants, you can have a total of minus 5 litres of fuel. Both these options seem a little impractical in the real world.
Please feel free to correct me if I’ve miscalculated. I will apologise humbly.
Don’t get me wrong, I as much as anyone get excited about new technology and developments. I hope someone can put me straight and convince me that these claims are fact AND as 2 seater, it is legal to actually take off.
It appears there are 2 different specs for the aircraft. I’ve just found an alternate website that shows a 600kg MTOW rather than the 472Kg in the video and other marketing.Sorry folks if I sound grumpy today. I usually keep my mind to myself unless it’s positive.
But I get more than a little disappointed when aircrafts are marketed to often non-technical pilots who can’t weed through the marketing claims and who often don’t have the experience to conclude the impracticality of and often illegality of flying 2 seat aircrafts that can’t comply with legal requirements especially with European rules, or don’t understand the true performance vs economy until after they are the proud owner.
ok, I obviously need some sleep, so I’m off to bed!
Risen also claims “speeds unheard of in any aircraft powered by the Rotax 912 engine.”... The claimed performance vs fuel economy sound fantastic. Problem is, they fall way outside what even Rotax can manage. Is any of this third party verified? Perhaps they can challenge the current FAI world record for fuel efficiency. According to their numbers, this would be a cinch...
Are the official speed runs flown near sea level and then corrected for temperature etc.?Robin has been through a validated world speed record setting process with his other Sonerai. He knows how to accurately determine his true air speed. As he says, his target is 173ktas but he is only achieving 168ktas with this variant (with tweaking to go). I do not know whether his current speeds have been validated officially, but I have confidence that if he claims these speeds, they are legitimate.
While he hasn’t yet achieved his target of 173ktas, he has hit his target of an RV performance on a Rotax 912, and with the ability to carry 2 large sized people. This was never about achieving another world record, only to achieve some personal targets. He is very close to doing that and even if he doesn’t ultimately make it, he has achieved a creditable outcome for his project.
I'll try!Please feel free to enlighten me in a constructive manner.
Hi DaveRisen also claims “speeds unheard of in any aircraft powered by the Rotax 912 engine.”
Erm, Robin‘s documented world speed records exceed the maximum straight and level speed of the Risen and VH-SRS can also do better than the Risen.
Perhaps the Risen team haven’t done their homework when making their claim...
Robin, what you have achieved is outstanding. Congratulations!
Hi Mark.Thanks, TurbAero, for starting this thread. Robin, that's quite a plane--beautiful work and great numbers.
As I'm sure you know, Sonex (and John Monnett) have taken the Sonerai design back under their wing. John has a reputation for ardently opposing significant changes to his designs, but with that said it might be worth approaching Sonex with your developments. I >entirely< understand why you don't want to get into the promotion, production, sales biz, but arranging for your work to be transferred to Sonex assures your work lives on and broadly benefits others (and gives Sonex a new product to sell). Anyway, a thought.
I'd need the fantastic trailer...as a doghouse to move into when my understanding bride finally loses her patience.
Hi.Are the official speed runs flown near sea level and then corrected for temperature etc.?
Thanks for giving it a try. Sorry it didn't come to pass as it would have been good for the sport.Hi Mark.
Firstly, thank you for your kind comments. Really appreciated.
I did speak with John at Oshkosh in 2011 about transferring my testing and ideas on to one of his designs in return for a discounted kit for me to apply them to on the other side of the world, but he wasn’t interested and I understand and respect that decision.
You have to understand the european ultralight context. The 450kg MTOW probably comes from France in the 70's, to regulate the "flying lawn chair" of the era. The regulators for once were quite intelligent, they decided that with a MTOW of 450Kg AND a minimum flying speed of 65Km/h (and a max power of 100HP for 2 seaters), the kinetic energy liberated in a crash wouldn't do too much damage to the ground and therefore, if you comply with these limitations, you can do whatever you want. It was followed by others countries (italy? spain? germany?) but it's always a national set of rules.
Then comes the EU, and the now "Light Sport Aircraft", which is different from the US LSA (no speed limit, retracts...), and is 600Kg MTOW, but it is certified.
With the price drop of carbon fiber, manufacturers realized they could build some pretty good 2 seaters, but, apparently, with industrial process and the nice leather seats, it's quite hard to keep the weight of these 200K€ airplanes under 300Kg, hence the "it's a 2 seater with 475Kg MTOW you can fly without a PPL, but you know, we also sell the 600Kg LSA version, in case you want to takeoff with 2 people and full fuel *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*"
All the carbon fiber high-end LSA (vl3, wt9 dynamic, blackshape, tarrangon...) sell a 450Kg/600Kg version of the same airplane.
Soooo, what's happening now, is some countries that like certified and are good with composite (germany) want to push the ultralight limits to 600Kg MTOW but with more regulations, and then you have France, were we like our ULM freedom the way it is thank you very much that doesn't want it. We got an increase to 500Kg (yay!) to accommodate "modern" people and stop the hypocrisy but we refused some EU regulation and kept our national soverignty on the subject.
If you followed my rambling, what I'm trying to say is, when Risen say they are the fastest 912 airplane in the world, they mean "we are the fastest (side-by-side) 912 airplane (with a 65Km/h stall speed) in the world (of Europe)" because the european market is complicated and no sane american will fly a sub 300Kg not powered by lycoming fast aircraft. We needed you crazy guys down under to do it!
What's your stall speed?
I fully understand this statement, I went off with a couple of friends to look at a K8 Glider. During the inspection I climbed in and was checking the fit when the owners wife came out of the house, noticed me in the glider and ask what I thought. I looked at her and responded " when I left home my wife said to me " If you bring home another airplane it had better be comfortable enough to sleep in" " She howled with laughter and returned to the house.I'd need the fantastic trailer...as a doghouse to move into when my understanding bride finally loses her patience.