Verner 3-cylinder radial in flight on a replica Farman Moustique

Discussion in 'Firewall Forward / Props / Fuel system' started by cluttonfred, Aug 1, 2015.

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  1. Aug 1, 2015 #1

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    blane.c and PTAirco like this.
  2. Aug 1, 2015 #2

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

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    I really like that little thing. These little Verner motors could have all sorts of guys like you and I digging out their flying and glider manuals...

    Modern Longster, anyone?
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Aug 3, 2015 #3

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    The plot thickens. Here's the latest from Verner, a five-cylinder is on the way that might just be a perfect VW and A-65 alternative.

    "The 3-cylinder engine specification: weight 37 kg, power 40 HP@2300 RPM.* The 3-cylinder engine is available.

    The 5-cylinder engine will be tested at the end of the year. Specification: weight 55 kg, power 65 HP@2300 RPM."
     
  4. Aug 3, 2015 #4

    Abraham Leket

    Abraham Leket

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    Matt- "by the end of this year" is 2 years from production -in reality...
    The Scarlet 5 was tested since 2014 in China by Verner's subsidiary- looks terific- all compact and biffy radial but.. no news for 2 years.
    Pete Plum still in testing, looks like VW is-at this point- the ONLY real thing 60 HP for 2015 installments.
    If I had some realistic prediction from them -even for 2016-I would take it but alas..
     
  5. Aug 3, 2015 #5

    Grelly

    Grelly

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    I have often wondered why Rotec has never produced 3 and 5 cylinder versions of their radial. By my calcs, approximately 45 and 75 Hp. I am sure they would have takers...
     
  6. Aug 3, 2015 #6

    litespeed

    litespeed

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    I love the idea of the 3 and 5 radials

    Would love to see one on a modded Hummelbird.

    I know that seems weird but each to their own.
     
  7. Aug 3, 2015 #7

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    I spoke with one of the Rotec owners at Oshkosh back in 2012, apparently they have no interest in the lower end of the price/power spectrum, which is too bad. I hear that Ron Wanttaja would give his firstborn for a reliable, affordable 65 hp radial for his Fly Baby. ;-)
     
  8. Aug 9, 2015 #8

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    Hmmm, the original American Eagle Eaglet carried (barely) two people on a 35hp, 3-cylinder radial and the first Taylor E-2 Cub used a 40hp Salmson. Maybe that's what this engine needs...a replica Eaglet or E-2 Cub!
     
  9. Aug 9, 2015 #9

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

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    Realistically an E-2 is a single seater and I don't expect the Eaglet to be any different. I would think either one could serve as the basis for a very roomy single seat evening floater at around 90% scale.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2015 #10

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    Here are additional specs and drawings of the three-cylinder Verner from their Facebook page. By e-mail they quoted me a price of $5,000.

    11893852_978232495573453_993377736647040525_o.jpg 11928715_982665541796815_1458558591696214610_o.jpg 11899982_978233465573356_2869783940090825087_n.jpg
     
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  11. Aug 27, 2015 #11

    Abraham Leket

    Abraham Leket

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    Matt- this 1.6 liter is VERY tempting. 70" prop and 35HP contin. power.
    I know its bad for me- but the sound and the look- its like walking with your wife (alas..) in Pattaya red district...
    Who is the brave one to try it?
     
  12. Aug 27, 2015 #12

    Abraham Leket

    Abraham Leket

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    enter twice-out of sheer excitment...
     
  13. Aug 27, 2015 #13

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    That's a pretty nice set of specs all-told.
     
  14. Aug 27, 2015 #14

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    One correction to my earlier post.... The cost quoted to me by e-mail is EUR €5,000 so USD $5,642 at current exchange rates. I have gone back to ask them exactly what is included (exhaust, starter, etc.?) at that price.
     
  15. Aug 27, 2015 #15

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    I apologize for drifting the thread away from Verner. No offense to Verner or the radial engine crowd intended, but I want to address something that was mentioned by Mr. Leket...

    Pete is not just in the "testing" stage anymore. He has been producing parts, and is legitimately able to take orders for his conversion kits. I want to impress on everyone as much as I can... Pete is totally committed to this, and is in the beginning production stage. He is not a dreamer, he is a do-er. He figured out a very simple, mechanically sound way to create a 60HP aircraft engine using a majority of existing FAA certified parts. The new parts that he had to design and manufacture were done to equal or higher standards than the original Continental versions. Essentially his engine will have the same reliability and ease of operation as the O-200, but just scaled down to 58-62HP and 105 lbs. weight.
     
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  16. Aug 28, 2015 #16

    Dana

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    The O-200 and the Verner 5 cylinder will be in competition with a full VW. The Verner 3 cylinder is competition with a half VW, and there's nothing in that range. 34 continuous hp at 2300 rpm will produce considerably more thrust than a half VW at WOT spinning a toothpick at over 3000 rpm.

    Does the Verner use VW components like pistons and cylinders? That would keep repair costs down.

    Dana
     
  17. Aug 28, 2015 #17

    rtfm

    rtfm

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    ...so why do it? :)

    Duncan
     
  18. Aug 28, 2015 #18

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    To address something posted that was not quite accurate....
     
  19. Aug 28, 2015 #19

    Abraham Leket

    Abraham Leket

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    Why Verner shy away from 50-70HP category is beyond me. For the same reason why it took Lycoming 50,000+ Rotax 912 units sales in 10 years to come out with 233 these days. Welcome Lycoming-but the party is almost over...Rotax is strong and with large distribution and support centers.
    The same rational can be found back in the 70's were IBM operating system gave IBM managemet a feeling that the sun rises from their rear end every single morning-until a small unknown Microsoft came along..naaa nothing to worry about..
    Get them Pete Plum !
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
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  20. Sep 3, 2015 #20

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    I agree completely that it is very surprising that Verner (and others) aren't trying to complete in a lower HP range, though I would probably say 70-100 hp since 50-70 hp is largely addressed by VW conversions. A directy drive 70 hp radial would be perfect for any number of classic homebuilts designed around the small Continentals and moving up to 80-100 hp would take the Rotax 912 head on.

    FYI, I heard back from the Verner factory that the €5000 price for the Scarlett 3VW three-cylinder engine is for a complete, running engine with all accessories except the exhaust, external oil tank (and related plumbing) and engine mount. The factory does not supply those even as an option at additional cost, so they would have to be sourced locally.
     

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