Van's announces highwing RV-15

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PredragVasic

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Unless it's a four place. Then, one is four to many.
I doubt you’ll find those that fit this discussion. The back country bush pilots in the “genre” of those YouTubers (someone mentioned Trent Palmer) fly solo, or at most with a girlfriend beside them.

People who fly four are usually on a mission that isn’t all that interesting to the YouTube audiences. The plane is a vehicle to get them into an otherwise inaccessible place, where they can enjoy lifer for a day or a few. Those people don’t get into the NTSB statistics. Not any more likely than other EA-B flyers.
 
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PTAirco

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150 HP SuperCub and decided the SC is a has been.

Dan
[/QUOTE]

I've worked Cubs, Supercubs, Legend Cubs, Carbon Cubs, Javron Cubs and other Cub Clones. And I just don't get it. A J3 is fun for puttering around in once in a while. Most of the overpowered Cubs and clones are good at getting off the ground reasonably quickly. That's it. They aren't exceptionally good at anything else. Don't want to offend Cub lovers but it's an ancient, archaic design with limited uses and not much practicality. There is no room for anything, including larger than skinny people and even if the gross weight allows it, you usually run out of CG limits long before you get there. The control system is antiquated and I've rarely flown a Cub that didn't have a ton a slop and friction in the controls. They are awkward to work on, everything is so inaccessible. Etc etc.
Sure, People learn to live with quirks and love their Cubs, nothing wrong with that, but I don't get why companies pour so much effort in redesigning and improving the Cub when a clean sheet design would be so much better with less effort. Flogging a dead horse, comes to mind....
 

PredragVasic

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It’s like the old VW bug from the 60s. You can swap out the old air-cooled 35hp engine with the Golf TDI one, retrofit some sort of power breaking system, bolt in an air conditioning, but you’ll still have tons of huge blind spots, dangerously stiff suspension, steering, arcane old gearbox, next-to-useless “frunk” (front trunk), with the fuel tank in the most dangerous place possible in case of a collision (right between you and the spark-producing pike of metal)… it all seems utterly pointless, all for the romantic notion of what the old car used to represent in some people’s youth.
 

TFF

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I bet is not Cubish unless he is buying out something already out there. With the economy, possible. The all aluminum Tailwind/ HW7with a better stall speed is my pick. When the RV3 and 4 were new, part of the requirement if I remember was it had to get in and out of a 800 ft strip; the one VG owned. So super STOL is one thing, shorter than most normal runways is STOL and you might not be able to go anywhere, but a back country airport like the ones Trent Palmer was visiting in one of his last videos and being able to go 50 miles an hour faster than the pure bush planes, sounds like a mass winner.
 

PredragVasic

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Back on the subject at hand, as many here are dancing a bit around the actual, legitimate reasons for the existence of high-wing aircraft (as VAN’s fans sometimes tend to do), I’ll try to articulate what most commonly drives the E-AB crowd to these:

Easy in and out. The average age of a home builder is quite mature, and the idea is that the result of that homebuilding effort should meet the mission requirements for a reasonable period of time. For every one of is who may be fine with the idea of climbing onto a wing, then stepping down into the cockpit well (and reversing the process on the way out), there will be a spouse for whom that would be a very unwelcome challenge. I‘m 58, medium height and fairly athletic build (71 kg), but even I’m not exactly excited about having to climb over the wing each time I fly.

Sightseeing view. One of the reasons for having a plane is seeing the magnificent beauty of the nature we overfly (and that seems to be a frequent reason for weekend flying, for many of the weekend pilots). Unobstructed view makes that much more satisfying. As for blind spots that the high wing presents ( owners above), it also eliminates two fairly big ones below.

Shelter from elements. While you can control whether you want to depart In the rain, you sometimes don’t have a choice but to land in rain. High wing gives you an excellent shelter that allows you to open doors, climb out, fetch your gear, your umbrella(s), get everyone ready, lock the plane, open umbrellas and eventually step into that rain.

This has another bonus of providing a nice shade to sit in, at airshows. While I’m sure I’ll be walking the Oshkosh exhibits most of the time, the older I get, the more likely I’ll be needing breaks in the shade under my wing.

And on the matter of size of this future RV-15-to-be, vast majority of the potential buyers, as well as those who already own similar planes, fly solo or with their spouse almost exclusively. However, the gap between “almost exclusively” and and “only” is pretty massive. And the point is, even if those two additional seats get used literally only three times during the entire time of that aircraft with that owner, the amount of joy they allowed the owner to share with those other three people on a typical trip makes it universally worth it.

The competition among two-seat high-wing offerings is fairly robust. It becomes rather thin when we look at 4-seat (Bearhawk, BD-4, Murphy Yukon, Jabiru, Comp-air and the upcoming Sling High-Wing from South Africa, plus a few 2+2, which can’t really haul that much too far). It seems to me that the RV would fit nicely between the Bearhawk (which never offered the modern, nose wheel option) and the Yukon.

We won’t know what Dick VanGrunsven will eventually offer, but one thing is without a doubt, it will be a very appealing product, thanks to the stellar reputation the company has built so far.
 

Riggerrob

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It’s like the old VW bug from the 60s. You can swap out the old air-cooled 35hp engine with the Golf TDI one, retrofit some sort of power breaking system, bolt in an air conditioning, but you’ll still have tons of huge blind spots, dangerously stiff suspension, steering, arcane old gearbox, next-to-useless “frunk” (front trunk), with the fuel tank in the most dangerous place possible in case of a collision (right between you and the spark-producing pike of metal)… it all seems utterly pointless, all for the romantic notion of what the old car used to represent in some people’s youth.”



Dear PreDragVasic,

You hit the nail on the head! Some people decide early in life what is the best STOL plane, VW or motorcycle and please do not waste your time telling them anything new.

That explains why Harley-Davidson’s largest market is grey-beards. My younger brother refers to that crowd as “An expensive form of cos-play!”

While I may be a rump, old, grey-beard, the rising cost of renting apartments is forcing me to reconsider living in a van. I lived in a VW van back when I was young and beautiful, but when I look at VW vans today, they look tiny!
 

Daleandee

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While I may be a rump, old, grey-beard, the rising cost of renting apartments is forcing me to reconsider living in a van. I lived in a VW van back when I was young and beautiful, but when I look at VW vans today, they look tiny.
Well I was young a long time ago! I currently own a '74 VW bug and it is very much a "driver's car" as most kids today couldn't start the thing much less make it go.

And speaking of older ... when I was at Sun-N-Fun this year I camped in a tent. Lotta lessons learned but mostly that I need better accommodations in my older years!

Back to the subject ... I've considered selling my low wing and buying a high wing for various reasons but I'm still in love with the one I have. I do think that the right high wing might make me move in that direction. Van's certainly are the folks to pull off something quite capable.
 

jandetlefsen

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Don't think Van's need to look too hard for a niche for this plane. Being a Van's and a high wing will be enough to sell lots of them. Builders love their planes and some people simply prefer high wings. I think that's all there is to it. That's why the rest will probably be fairly conventional. Lycoming engine, side by side, maybe even 4 seats would be my best guess. In that combination the market is pretty substantial.
 

EzyBuildWing

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Maybe it will look like a BD-4 with 4 seats, cantilever rivetless super-smooth wing, a 210hp Lyc and a 200mph cruise speed.
I wonder if the BD-4's wing-span could be increased from29' up to say 38' for clower more efficient cruise?
 

Pops

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Thinking more like 2 place side x side with large cargo space or 2 more seats in the cargo area if needed. Easy in and out. Be nice to have a sliding rear door like on a mini-van. Back in the mid 1992's I was designing a 4 seat steel tube fuselage with a sliding door for large size cargo. Plan on using Cessna 175 wings and tails. 200 hp, Lyc-360 ,taildragger.
 

speedracer

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Loved my 1968 Bug with the IRS suspension , box frame with a 1963 Buick 215 Ci, V-8 of 200 HP. Bus transaxle is better to stand up to a lot of HP.
Pete Brock, who I used to sell his UP brand hang gliders for had a 60's VW bus with that 215 CI V8 in it. I rode in it a couple times and it would cruise at 100 MPH.
 

Pops

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Pete Brock, who I used to sell his UP brand hang gliders for had a 60's VW bus with that 215 CI V8 in it. I rode in it a couple times and it would cruise at 100 MPH.
The engine is just 75 lbs heavier that the VW engine. I weighed both.
 

addicted2climbing

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Ha! Interesting. FAA listing is N261Y, listed as an "Evans Body Shop RV-4."

However, looking at the picture, it's obviously not a VANS RV-4....
View attachment 113677
Ron Wanttaja
Im reading Tony Leviers book righ now and lots about the firecracker. Kieth Rider made some amazing planes that held their own with the big displacement guys like the Meteor.
 

Mark Z

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Cub vs Champ; I’ll keep my Champ. We should see our version of the RV-15 within the next few weeks; an Outbound kit (S-21) showing up at the Granbury High School for our student build this year.
My experience with Van’s RV-12 is that the instructions are pretty good but the complexity and parts count is too high. I’m certainly not saying that it isn’t a great little airplane because it really is. But, building 3 of them is enough.
 

b7gwap

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I didn’t catch all the Q&A, did Vans say anything about driven vs drawn rivets in their presentation? I imagine on something slower you could stand some prouder rivet heads, and drawn saves the builder a ton of time and equipment/skill costs.
 

TFF

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It had a 215, because a 289 doesn’t fit well. A great aunt had a neighbor that had a 911 engine in his.
 

Dale_R

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They won't needlessly keep us in the dark, but they will also be careful not to paint themselves into a corner with premature claims and conjecture.
So far, I'm reminded of Jerry Pournelle's expression - frequently repeated - in Byte Magazine: "RSN". Real Soon Now was the way he marked what he saw as "vapourware".
 
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