Van's announces highwing RV-15

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,752
Location
Orange County, California
Bingo. Lots of screwing around and complexity to do what a simple fat(ish) wing does and for what? ...
Not to mention all the extra weight and cost of those mechanisms. Unless cruise speed is a critical number for the design mission, all the extra stuff just isn't worth it - which is why we only see the lightest, simplest of all those out in "the wild" on real-world backcountry airplanes.
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
13,999
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
I am a bede 4c builder who has been trying to build an RV 8 style wing onto the body of of my aircraft.. it works with adjusted control sizes. Allows tanked wings over wet wings
RV-8’s have wet wings that, if not properly constructed / sealed, leak.


BJC
 

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
1,723
Location
KTHA
One thing is absolutely certain. The Van's PR goal has been superbly successful. People are definitely talking about this.
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
2,165
Location
Pocahontas MS
RV-8’s have wet wings that, if not properly constructed / sealed, leak.


BJC
Not in the context of a BD4 or Mustang 2, which have non-removable-tank, literal wet wings.
Everything leaks, eventually. Especially old BD4s. ;-)
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
9,860
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
But a fat or fat-ish wing may not allow the airplane to achieve the cruise speed that Van''s wants to achieve. Good speed and good handling is Van's calling card and their market position and their brand identity.

ALSO a fat wing would make it infringe into Zenith's territory, which Van's has no need to compete with.

My bet is still on the Mini-Me Helio. The Helio even used Van's airfoil (before he used it), it looks like what an RV would look like with a high wing, it's all metal, and it goes a lot faster than the "low and slow" airplanes. But the Helio can take off and land short, then cruise fast. That would be the perfect achievement and marketplace for Van's if they did a Helio but for 2 or 4 seats and 180HP instead of 6 seats and 350 HP.
 

jedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
2,805
Location
Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
Didn't say it wouldn't or couldn't. Look back. I never said that at all.

What I said is that pilots are notoriously conservative about airplanes and, if it's to be used for the back-country, it needs to look like a "backcountry airplane" in their mind. And that means every other "backcountry airplane" they've seen, and 90%+ of those have struts. Do one without struts, and watch the storm of conversation on the internet ensue. Doesn't matter that there have been "strutless" STOL airplanes before. Heck, there were huge controversies when "innovations" like flaps, canopies, and IFR instrumentation were introduced, with huge sections of the pilot community dead-set against those "new-fangled gadgets."

We've all been here on HBA and other pilot forums long enough to know this. I'm not taking a shot at anyone. It's just how pilots are.
FYI -

The Helio Courier is a cantilever high-wing light C/STOL utility aircraft designed in 1949. Around 500 of these aircraft were manufactured in Pittsburg, Kansas, from 1954 until 1974 by the Helio Aircraft Company. The design featured four leading edge slats that deployed automatically, and large trailing edge flaps. Wikipedia
 

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,752
Location
Orange County, California
FYI -

The Helio Courier is a cantilever high-wing light C/STOL utility aircraft designed in 1949. Around 500 of these aircraft were manufactured in Pittsburg, Kansas, from 1954 until 1974 by the Helio Aircraft Company. The design featured four leading edge slats that deployed automatically, and large trailing edge flaps. Wikipedia
You're entirely, completely, and totally missing my point. I always appreciate people taking the time to reply to my posts, but please actually read them first.
 

ToddK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
569
Location
Shweaty Texas
But a fat or fat-ish wing may not allow the airplane to achieve the cruise speed that Van''s wants to achieve. Good speed and good handling is Van's calling card and their market position and their brand identity.

ALSO a fat wing would make it infringe into Zenith's territory, which Van's has no need to compete with.

My bet is still on the Mini-Me Helio. The Helio even used Van's airfoil (before he used it), it looks like what an RV would look like with a high wing, it's all metal, and it goes a lot faster than the "low and slow" airplanes. But the Helio can take off and land short, then cruise fast. That would be the perfect achievement and marketplace for Van's if they did a Helio but for 2 or 4 seats and 180HP instead of 6 seats and 350 HP.
You are probably very close to the mark. Vans guys like to go fast. The RVs are excellent and popular for reason.

Of course, the Rans S21 fills that position nicely with no gimmicks, and has a realistic 500hr (ish) build time. It also has the advantage of being made in the USA, and sporting a sturdy welded tube fuselage.

Ultimately I have no doubt the Vans guys will love it, and they will sell them because of their name and their well earned reputation. Outside the Vans Airforce, its going to have to be very compelling going up against such well respected manufactures like Rans, Zenith, and many excellent Super Cub kits.
 

Bill-Higdon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
1,606
Location
Salem, Oregon, USA
Not in the context of a BD4 or Mustang 2, which have non-removable-tank, literal wet wings.
Everything leaks, eventually. Especially old BD4s. ;-)
I remember a BD-4 in Missoula back in the 80's that the wing looked like it was suffering from scabies from all of the external proseal that was applied to keep the leaks kind of under control
 

Rataplan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
203
You're entirely, completely, and totally missing my point. I always appreciate people taking the time to reply to my posts, but please actually read them first.
a strutted wing spar can be lighter and simple, and the drag of the struts may lower the max speed but not critical.( a thinner profile is possible) with a low wing you also don't see the tops of the trees on sHort final. imho a simple bushplane should be as KISS as possible. repairable on the spot. but slotted half fowler flaps are simple and effective anyway lot of options.

perhaps ihe rv15 will be 'just' an highwing rv
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
2,252
Location
Canada
Dear Rataplan,
My biggest beef about the high wings - on Cessnas - is that I lose sight of the runway while turning onto final approach. Van had best install plenty of windows in the cabin ceiling if he wants perfect visibility for his new RV-15.
 

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
1,723
Location
KTHA
Or do what Zenith does with the wings and skylight so you can see over the wings during a turn.
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
2,252
Location
Canada
Or do what Zenith does with the wings and skylight so you can see over the wings during a turn.
I was thinking more like a Fieseler Storch, albeit with slightly curved windows like the latest iterations of An-2.
 

Wayne

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
489
Location
Chicago, IL
Hey all! I had the pleasure of meeting Elliot Seguin last night at the AirVenture Ultralight Field :) What a lovely man, and so nice and humble. Sorry to detract from this thread.. VB and I share the same DNA (you know this is the part where I suggest he is the less talented and less good looking and less humorous mega achiever than me) so my thread worthy comment is "Could it be that Vans is simply responding to competition from the Vashon Ranger - a plane designed by a former Vans designer I think?
 

addicted2climbing

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
1,223
Location
Glendale, CA
Here is something nobody mentioned...

I had been in talks with AAK (Australian Aircraft Kits) for a good long time prior to Covid trying to become a rep in the USA for the Hornet STOL. I contacted them too late however, as they have been in talks for a few months prior with a MAJOR kit manufacturer in the USA and were close to closing a deal. I still offered to be a west coast rep with whoever they go with but in my mind I always thought Vans was who he was talking to. I even mentioned it once and he sort of gave me a vague enough answer to make me think I hit the nail on the head. It might be easier for Vans to assume a working design already proven in the harsh backcountry over a new design on their own into a market they have no experience in... I would not be surprised if this is what happens..

Kind of hope it is as AAK was so mired in backorders that they would only consider a fully functioning shop to manufacturer everything here over shipping kits as they were already too busy. I wanted to import kits so it did not work out in the end for me.

The Hornet STOL is a bit less refined than the typical Vans aircraft so if it does end up being him, I am sure he will change it up a bit.

Fingers crossed..
 

Rataplan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
203
Dear Rataplan,
My biggest beef about the high wings - on Cessnas - is that I lose sight of the runway while turning onto final approach. Van had best install plenty of windows in the cabin ceiling if he wants perfect visibility for his new RV-15.
flew not a lot 172 but remember making turns you have to lift the wing a bit to see if its clear .and bend over forward with ur head LOL
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
2,252
Location
Canada
Good point dear addicted2climbing,
AAK's Wasp has shoulder-mounted wings that meet two criteria.
A - it's wings are mounted high enough to keep them out of the weeds.
B - Pilots can see both above and below their wings.

With Van's experience balancing their RV-12, they can probably design a Wasp-ish airplane with zero forward sweep in the wings.
 
Last edited:

Pops

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
9,910
Location
USA.
flew not a lot 172 but remember making turns you have to lift the wing a bit to see if its clear .and bend over forward with ur head LOL
On my field you loose sight of the runway right past abeam of the touchdown point on down wind and don't see it again until coming around the end of a high ridge on final. No biggie, its always there.
 
Top