skydawg
Well-Known Member
Sorry for late reply to some questions asked here and by email. our c172 has a multi category AC, and typically now operated in exhibition which as about same ops limits as amateur builts. Exhibition airworthiness cert does not expire, similar to standard AC. we are performing private and commercial pilot training in it as we build time in different environments, and even FAA check rides, and missions such as 3 straight hours of touch and goes which are tough on an engine To simulate training mission.
RE question of STC….the STC would allow our engine to be be installed on legacy airframes, such as c172/182/220,PA28…ect. Currently looking for a Aztec twin airframe as well. The idea is for someone to buy a beat up airframe with damaged or worn out engine and bolt our kit on it. Project already has FAA G1 issue paper but executing the cert plan takes $ and have not yet found a good fit for investor yet, and still can’t figure out how to get any reasonable form of product liability insurance for a certified product (last quote was twice cost of the kit for each sold), or the company is put into a complicated maze of shell corporations, companies and trusts to curtail civil actions. My intent was to just make a simple solution to allow more people to fly, not become a lawyer and spend time maintaining the shell game.
RE other car conversion engines currently in exp and trying to cert those. There are some nice exp engine engines sold in the exp community, and I looked at a few. But our plan was to certify an engine by STC which requires more than just a solid engine. Most of the cert exp engines couldn’t meet part QC pedigree and EEC not likely meet redundancy requirements, which were first obstacle. When I spoke to a few of the manufacturers about making a version I could potentially certify, none of them wanted anything to do with it mostly due to liability reasons; I couldn’t blame them. There is a lot more required for certification beyond
RE liability issue, yet again, this is a huge obstacle for a small company, and touted as a huge barrier of entry for established manufacturers in the sector. If you don’t buy the excuse, go shop around the small aviation insurance market for a new critical component for a class 1 certified aircraft….try to explain it will enhance safety, maybe something like a simple low fuel warning lamp that’s in billions of cars worldwide. Before they inspect your foolproof design-say it’s the exact part used in millions of cars in the 1970-1980s with no history of failure- they will ask, what happens if someone crashes due to fuel exhaustion as they were relying on your lamp, instead of the gauge or time log, to illuminate and say it never did….what if there were passengers on board, what if it crashes into a school full of kids, ect….. then they will explain something about your light may only be partially attributed to the accident and your documents clearly state it’s not to be used as a primary indication of fuel remaining,…. but still you get hit with a big judgement, and even if your product worked perfectly and you can likely prove it in court, legal cost will likely be far more than you will ever make on selling them….and thats just one claim. Huge companies like garmin can and it’s just cost of doing business And built into retail cost. So you anyone still doesn’t buy the liability cost factors, I would appreciate hearing an informed and experienced solution rather than opinions. BTW, the liability issue is also a significant issue when seeking investment, as they do their own research and recognize it as a considerable risk.
RE prop type certificate… there are certification basis that don’t require specific prop TC for STC, as well as other components. It depends on how the cert plan was written and it’s certification basis proposal and checklist. if the FAA issues a G1 paper for that cert plan that does not require separate TC, then it’s not required.
RE selling the plans to build the engine. Our mission was to reignite GA by making GA affordable again. I think few would want to take the time and learn the skills required to make the thing, so there wouldn’t be much of an impact on rental fleet. I do think that those with the skills would likely buy a beat up old Cessna or piper and put the engine kit on, hang an experimental airworthiness on it, and have fun, and could train and build time in it for cheap…open to everyone’s thoughts on this issue. I think it would cost less than $35k for the kit, and you could sell it after you are done building time to someone needing same mission for at least same cost. I. Our case, we bought a beat up c172 with well over TBO engine for less than $18k, sold the engine and other unneeded components for over $10k, so airframe cost us about $8k. So, for cost about $44k, it’s not a bad deal for flying for about $20/hr. So the kit may have some merit. Our first website did have a lot of technical info about making your own auto conversion, but when we began shopping for liability insurance, it was highly recommended we take it off (seems that people have followed instructions on websites and sued source of info after they got injured….. so we removed it).
RE flying clubs with experimentals….again, a lot of misinformation here. Yes, its allowed AS LONG as the club is equity based, meaning members own part of the aircrafts, and rental/use cost is reasonable to run the operation. I’m thinking of starting a Corsair club with a c172 and c182 with V8’s. Rental cost would be about $40 and $50/hr wet.
I also get a lot of messages RE putting a cert aircraft into amateur built category. Again, not likely due to long standing FAA policies. And yes, a few have in the past, but most were rescinded as issued in error, along with some field approvals. I posted relative info on www.corsairv8.com but still get folks saying I am wrong and they can get AB exp. on their Cessna with my engine. As a former FAA DER I have seen a lot of applicants try to circumvent regulations with creative arguments, the only ones I have seen sneaked by FAA was from very resourceful applicants…. But good luck to anyone wanting to try.
RE what’s status of Corsair…. the engine is running flawless, all routine oil analysis suggest a 200 hour change interval if leaded gas isn’t used, and mostly putting on flight hours in demanding operations, such as training actual private and commercial pilots which is demanding on the engine. Our focus is on seeking the right investor that is an aviation enthusiasts and shares our mission, mostly to fund STC cert. and set up manufacturing. Most VC firms are interested given the cost savings , but don’t understand GA and what it takes to make it work, and usually concentrate on the liability risk more than the opportunity. If anyone here has any suggestion for potential investors, drop me a line. Otherwise, we’ll keep looking at other models to bolt our engine on. We are currently planning on taking a Prius hybrid and converting it for a c152 application, which would sole the battery range and charging infrastructure limitations. We also get a lot of inquires from Vans and other kit planes for using our engine…. Reached out to Vans about any Interest in working with us to build a mounting kit, but never heard back. But do have a couple of Vans owners offering up their plane as a test bed, so maybe will go in that direction.
we Get a lot of emails and apologize not answering questions quicker, and actually got some great ideas from followers on forums as HBA, as well as some offering their professional services for free…..currently got a structural engineer performing FEA on some components. So maybe the project becomes an open source? We recently added a new video on YouTube channel and on website as a results of questions and request for more info…hope it’s helpful and interesting.
thanks again for the interest.
RE question of STC….the STC would allow our engine to be be installed on legacy airframes, such as c172/182/220,PA28…ect. Currently looking for a Aztec twin airframe as well. The idea is for someone to buy a beat up airframe with damaged or worn out engine and bolt our kit on it. Project already has FAA G1 issue paper but executing the cert plan takes $ and have not yet found a good fit for investor yet, and still can’t figure out how to get any reasonable form of product liability insurance for a certified product (last quote was twice cost of the kit for each sold), or the company is put into a complicated maze of shell corporations, companies and trusts to curtail civil actions. My intent was to just make a simple solution to allow more people to fly, not become a lawyer and spend time maintaining the shell game.
RE other car conversion engines currently in exp and trying to cert those. There are some nice exp engine engines sold in the exp community, and I looked at a few. But our plan was to certify an engine by STC which requires more than just a solid engine. Most of the cert exp engines couldn’t meet part QC pedigree and EEC not likely meet redundancy requirements, which were first obstacle. When I spoke to a few of the manufacturers about making a version I could potentially certify, none of them wanted anything to do with it mostly due to liability reasons; I couldn’t blame them. There is a lot more required for certification beyond
RE liability issue, yet again, this is a huge obstacle for a small company, and touted as a huge barrier of entry for established manufacturers in the sector. If you don’t buy the excuse, go shop around the small aviation insurance market for a new critical component for a class 1 certified aircraft….try to explain it will enhance safety, maybe something like a simple low fuel warning lamp that’s in billions of cars worldwide. Before they inspect your foolproof design-say it’s the exact part used in millions of cars in the 1970-1980s with no history of failure- they will ask, what happens if someone crashes due to fuel exhaustion as they were relying on your lamp, instead of the gauge or time log, to illuminate and say it never did….what if there were passengers on board, what if it crashes into a school full of kids, ect….. then they will explain something about your light may only be partially attributed to the accident and your documents clearly state it’s not to be used as a primary indication of fuel remaining,…. but still you get hit with a big judgement, and even if your product worked perfectly and you can likely prove it in court, legal cost will likely be far more than you will ever make on selling them….and thats just one claim. Huge companies like garmin can and it’s just cost of doing business And built into retail cost. So you anyone still doesn’t buy the liability cost factors, I would appreciate hearing an informed and experienced solution rather than opinions. BTW, the liability issue is also a significant issue when seeking investment, as they do their own research and recognize it as a considerable risk.
RE prop type certificate… there are certification basis that don’t require specific prop TC for STC, as well as other components. It depends on how the cert plan was written and it’s certification basis proposal and checklist. if the FAA issues a G1 paper for that cert plan that does not require separate TC, then it’s not required.
RE selling the plans to build the engine. Our mission was to reignite GA by making GA affordable again. I think few would want to take the time and learn the skills required to make the thing, so there wouldn’t be much of an impact on rental fleet. I do think that those with the skills would likely buy a beat up old Cessna or piper and put the engine kit on, hang an experimental airworthiness on it, and have fun, and could train and build time in it for cheap…open to everyone’s thoughts on this issue. I think it would cost less than $35k for the kit, and you could sell it after you are done building time to someone needing same mission for at least same cost. I. Our case, we bought a beat up c172 with well over TBO engine for less than $18k, sold the engine and other unneeded components for over $10k, so airframe cost us about $8k. So, for cost about $44k, it’s not a bad deal for flying for about $20/hr. So the kit may have some merit. Our first website did have a lot of technical info about making your own auto conversion, but when we began shopping for liability insurance, it was highly recommended we take it off (seems that people have followed instructions on websites and sued source of info after they got injured….. so we removed it).
RE flying clubs with experimentals….again, a lot of misinformation here. Yes, its allowed AS LONG as the club is equity based, meaning members own part of the aircrafts, and rental/use cost is reasonable to run the operation. I’m thinking of starting a Corsair club with a c172 and c182 with V8’s. Rental cost would be about $40 and $50/hr wet.
I also get a lot of messages RE putting a cert aircraft into amateur built category. Again, not likely due to long standing FAA policies. And yes, a few have in the past, but most were rescinded as issued in error, along with some field approvals. I posted relative info on www.corsairv8.com but still get folks saying I am wrong and they can get AB exp. on their Cessna with my engine. As a former FAA DER I have seen a lot of applicants try to circumvent regulations with creative arguments, the only ones I have seen sneaked by FAA was from very resourceful applicants…. But good luck to anyone wanting to try.
RE what’s status of Corsair…. the engine is running flawless, all routine oil analysis suggest a 200 hour change interval if leaded gas isn’t used, and mostly putting on flight hours in demanding operations, such as training actual private and commercial pilots which is demanding on the engine. Our focus is on seeking the right investor that is an aviation enthusiasts and shares our mission, mostly to fund STC cert. and set up manufacturing. Most VC firms are interested given the cost savings , but don’t understand GA and what it takes to make it work, and usually concentrate on the liability risk more than the opportunity. If anyone here has any suggestion for potential investors, drop me a line. Otherwise, we’ll keep looking at other models to bolt our engine on. We are currently planning on taking a Prius hybrid and converting it for a c152 application, which would sole the battery range and charging infrastructure limitations. We also get a lot of inquires from Vans and other kit planes for using our engine…. Reached out to Vans about any Interest in working with us to build a mounting kit, but never heard back. But do have a couple of Vans owners offering up their plane as a test bed, so maybe will go in that direction.
we Get a lot of emails and apologize not answering questions quicker, and actually got some great ideas from followers on forums as HBA, as well as some offering their professional services for free…..currently got a structural engineer performing FEA on some components. So maybe the project becomes an open source? We recently added a new video on YouTube channel and on website as a results of questions and request for more info…hope it’s helpful and interesting.
thanks again for the interest.
