V - Witt / Witts V

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plncraze

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No BJC, not that flutter problem. I'm talking about how he would saw his racer's wings down till they didn't flutter. Every time I think about the "O&O" crash I am stunned. The bent prop from the wreck was on display at OSH for years turned by an electric motor hanging on the wall of his hanger.
 

Turd Ferguson

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I heard Steve giving a talk once and he said he experienced control flutter on his racers several times. Torque tube actuated ailerons was his solution to that which he incorporated into all of his "later" planes.

The NTSB finding from the O&O is sort of a joke. No idea what the NTSB would have written had they not found that Stits ink stamp on a piece of fabric.
 

TFF

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I believe there is some protection in that report. Supposedly The people he left on his last flight pointed out the fabric coming off the wing and Wittman said it would be ok until he gets back. Supposedly coming off the whole trip he was on. I believe he also test dove the O&O to 290 mph during his phase one flights. Pretty strong plane. The fabric coming off could have been cut off with a razor and no harm would have come to him and his wife. I believe the O&O wreckage parts being displayed in cheeky ways is what killed the Tailwind Baraboo get together and polarized the TW community. The crash is just like all of them, a chain of events that if broken earlier would have stopped the event.
 

Little Scrapper

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Anyone know what the "instruction book" is referring to?
IMG_20190718_170824889.jpg

Detail 3 is referencing the longerons on the fuselage. Usually they are scarfed or fishmouthed. I found this a bit odd.

IMG_20190718_170906149.jpg

IMG_20190718_170912840.jpg
 

Dennis DeFrange

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Hi Scrapper , I was wondering where you went . I was a follower on the other forum . Like the way that you find ways to build and not break the bank . I try to do the same and keep costs down . Makes a project more of a reality with every piece being priced way outta the ball park . Just found this forum and so far really like it here . Noticed that you are building a Smith wing in one of your earlier posts . I'm putting a Smith together with a good deal of mods . I have two of um . Had one back in the early 80's . Retired now and back at it . Good to be here .
 

Turd Ferguson

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Usually they are scarfed or fishmouthed.
"usually"

Witt was not afraid to experiment. He necked all his fuselages tubes down as it goes toward the tail because as he said "the loads become smaller and smaller as you move aft. The Tailwind is scarfed. Maybe he wanted to save a few ounces. The horizontal stab on a Tailwind is not scarfed. It's just a much smaller tube welded into a big tube.
 

Little Scrapper

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Hi Scrapper , I was wondering where you went . I was a follower on the other forum . Like the way that you find ways to build and not break the bank . I try to do the same and keep costs down . Makes a project more of a reality with every piece being priced way outta the ball park . Just found this forum and so far really like it here . Noticed that you are building a Smith wing in one of your earlier posts . I'm putting a Smith together with a good deal of mods . I have two of um . Had one back in the early 80's . Retired now and back at it . Good to be here .
I don't fit the Smith, just having fun with the wing a little bit
 

Dennis DeFrange

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I don't either . That's where the mods come in . On the Steve Wittman subject above , didn't he and Chuck Carothers work together on design about the same time ? The CAM Special had alot of the same characteristics , as far as wing tips etc. and neither were what ya could call show quality but they dam sure preformed .
 

BJC

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I don't either . That's where the mods come in . On the Steve Wittman subject above , didn't he and Chuck Carothers work together on design about the same time ? The CAM Special had alot of the same characteristics , as far as wing tips etc. and neither were what ya could call show quality but they dam sure preformed .
I don’t know if they collaborated, but my recollection is that neither the quality of Carothers’ design nor his fabrication came close to Wittman’s. And Wittman’s fabrication was crude compared to the current norm.

Chuck’s wing tips were part of the ailerons. No so on Steve’s airplanes.


BJC
 

Turd Ferguson

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Chuck Carothers did consult with Wittman on the wire bracing for the wing because he didn't want the weight of a cantilever wing spar. Originally the CAM Special was going to have an external cabane to attach the wires but Wittman convinced him to make the fuselage deeper and put the wire pylon inside the fuselage. That was a neat plane and if there is any doubt the wing braced wire wasn't strong enough.......Chuck would do a 7g pull from 200 mph in his routine. He said the wires would never shake, bow or vibrate.

As far as wing tips have no idea. One version did have small triangle tips but Chuck had 2 or 3 different wings on the Cam Special over it's life.
 

Mark Schoening

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Anyone know what the "instruction book" is referring to?
[

I have seen this type of scarf with the addition of 2-3 - 3/8 " holes drilled in the outer tube and welded....I asked why, guy said "lighter and less welding"...OK, If he says so. ...…….also inner tube is inserted 4 times the diameter (1/2" tube-- 2" insertion.) This was what I was told.....So, has to be gospel, right?
 

TFF

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On the tube joint, I think most homebuilts just cut the ends square. Not elegant and probably not best, but they are stronger than need be. My Starduster is like that. I think most homebuilts I have looked at are slip and weld. Some are loose fitting enough to get the next angle.

The Wittman tips work well for the simplicity but the V Witt is really just a FV version of Bonzo. It would be hard not to go Midget with square tips and a Continental. https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/wittman-special-20-buster
 

Little Scrapper

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Interesting reading the comments.

I know Steve had a reputation for simple and crude but strictly my opinion here with no disrespect to anyone......I don't think this V-Witt is that simple.

The landing gear is not simple. Just the axle itself is quite a complex affair to not only build it but to make sure there's zero slop in the fit.

The main spar carry through. That's not so simple. It sort of floats in the fuselage and alignment isn't as simple as most, especially where the rear spar hits that intercostal at a angle.

The upper longerons are not build straight. They are built with a hump. Again, more complex than a straight longeron.

Prop extension? Complex.

Tail feathers are not nearly as simple as many other T&F airplanes.

There's other parts as well. I'm not saying it's extremely difficult I'm just saying it's not straight forward like most designs.

My thoughts anyhow. Regardless, I love the design. I think it's really neat.
 

TFF

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I think one of the differences between Buster and the V-W is the V-W is trailerable. He flew Buster everywhere. That’s why he invented the Tailwind. It was the parts and tool chase plane carrying the spare engine, on the nose. He was already somewhat “old” when he came out of racing retirement. Simple is relative. He had already built two Busters. He already had successful prototypes! It is a race plane. If it does not win, it’s probably not a good race plane. Easy and comfortable are last on that list. That he sold plans is probably only because he had success selling Tailwind plans.
 

plncraze

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Cool pictures! Wittman was sharp and he did a lot with just a little.
 

Sockmonkey

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"usually"

Witt was not afraid to experiment. He necked all his fuselages tubes down as it goes toward the tail because as he said "the loads become smaller and smaller as you move aft. The Tailwind is scarfed. Maybe he wanted to save a few ounces. The horizontal stab on a Tailwind is not scarfed. It's just a much smaller tube welded into a big tube.
I notice he also uses the places where they're telescoped into each other as the connection points for the bracing members so he has the extra wall thickness.
 
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