UL training

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ryanjames170

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since it was talked about in another thread about how the 2 seat UL trainers are outlawed. i was curious how should one these days get a bit of UL training?
Do's, Don'ts ect.
 

pictsidhe

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You can't. Other options are some PPL or glider lessons. I was going to try glider lessons, but locally, that means joining a club. Which isn't cheap. There's a club in the UK that does reasonably priced 1 week residential gliding courses that I may do next year.
 

Wayne

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I wonder if training in an open air Light Sport like a side by side quicksilver would help? They have a place by me that does that. Weights would be different but at least you'd be able to learn the "low mass/high drag" part and sight picture.
 

TFF

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That was the whole intention of the FAA. They did not understand that the quest for the upper end of LSA performance was where it was to go instead of what they thought which was licensed fat ULs. Missed it by this much, as the man with the shoe phone says.
 

jedi

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You can't. Other options are some PPL or glider lessons. I was going to try glider lessons, but locally, that means joining a club. Which isn't cheap. There's a club in the UK that does reasonably priced 1 week residential gliding courses that I may do next year.
There are several commercial glider schools in the US. Contact the SSA (Soaring Society of America) for a list. Estrella soaring Southwest of Phoenix makes a winter vacation in the desert. Arizona Soaring www.azsoaring.com/about/
 

jedi

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There is no doubt that the loss of the two seat ultralight training exemption has made learning to fly a single seat ultralight for a student with no prior flying experience more difficult, more expensive and harder to find. All major Ultralight manufacturers offered a two seat training version of their design.

However, that does not mean that training is not available. There are those that can help you get to your goal. When you are ready to get serious, contact me.
 

Aerowerx

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This place does training in a QuickSilver 2SE.

So there may not be "part 103 ultralight" training, but there definitely is training available in low end toes-in-the-grass draggy LSA.
 

BBerson

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This place does training in a QuickSilver 2SE.

So there may not be "part 103 ultralight" training, but there definitely is training available in low end toes-in-the-grass draggy LSA.
The Quicksilver is an option. Bever Borne bought the company and is in business. He did a forum at Oshkosh.
 

blane.c

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Learning to fly is difficult enough for many without making it harder. Closed cockpit environment with tricycle gear is fastest, easiest way to learn for most people. Then transition into taildragger or open cockpit, but better to add each transition separately. Your brain has to learn around 100 new motor functions to fly an airplane, distractions are just going to lengthen the process.
 

Victor Bravo

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The video clips on Skyrider's website are nice looking and all, but the FAA could absolutely bust their asses on several things IMHO. From the two working video clip[s alone:

They are routinely flying at distances much closer than 500 feet from people, cars, etc.
They are charging money for aircraft rental but the starboard wing strut of that Quicksilver has the word "experimental" on it in big letters.
They are clearly flying over water, out of gliding distance to shore, without life jackets or water survival gear.

I like flying low as much or more as everybody else here, but for their instructor to be doing some of that stuff (on camera no less) is not a good representation of a safety-first attitude.
 

Armilite

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since it was talked about in another thread about how the 2 seat UL trainers are outlawed. i was curious how should one these days get a bit of UL training?
Do's, Don'ts ect.
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The Basic Ground and Flight Training you would get in any Light Sport Aircraft would be the same for any Ultralight. A Light Sport License is only 20hrs so would be good to get anyway. If your feeling comfortable at 10hrs, 15hrs, you can quite. Then find someone who maybe has same Tpye say your looking at a T-Bird 1 Ultralight, find someone with a T-Bird II that will take you up to get some insight on that Type of Aircraft.

A Smile, and a Good Atitude, and a Burger & Fry & Drink and offer to chip in on the Gas goes a long way, even today.

Join a Local EAA Chapter, visit all your local Airfields on a weekend.
 

BBerson

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The video clips on Skyrider's website are nice looking and all, but the FAA could absolutely bust their asses on several things IMHO. From the two working video clip[s alone:

They are routinely flying at distances much closer than 500 feet from people, cars, etc.
They are charging money for aircraft rental but the starboard wing strut of that Quicksilver has the word "experimental" on it in big letters.
They are clearly flying over water, out of gliding distance to shore, without life jackets or water survival gear.

I like flying low as much or more as everybody else here, but for their instructor to be doing some of that stuff (on camera no less) is not a good representation of a safety-first attitude.
Yeah, the "Ultralight Discovery Lesson" advertised isn't in an ultralight. And isn't Light Sport flight instruction either, it is a commercial thrill ride which isn't authorized for Light Sport at this time. And with those "two feet above the water" shenanigans it won't help get commercial operations approved.
 

Victor Bravo

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The guy is an FAA licensed CFI (Sport Pilot CFI), and the aircraft has an N number... so he cannot even make a half-assed claim that the FAR's don't apply to ultralights so he can buzz cars on the road like that. With the Quicksilver's near-vertical glide angle, being even 500 feet offshore from the beach is "out of gliding distance".

Not that it is directly relevant to the HBA discussion on the "principles" and "overall intentions" of the FAR's... but the unsupported, hearsay, anecdotal, unofficial, non-scientific, unproven, not-binding-in-a-court-of-law ramp-rumor in these parts is... one particular instructor on that airfeld is well known for not being entirely above boards in business, personal, or aviation dealings.
 

blane.c

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I wouldn't worry about what others are doing perse, those "buzzing" cars or the ilke will be getting rewarded soon enough and unless you think they would listen to you, there is nothing you can do to make it better.

If a card carrying CFI wants to train ultralight pilots, what is the reward for them. The knowledge that the student isn't even likely to stick around past solo? And if they are selling training they are documenting it, so there is an ink trail in the liability chain. Oh joy!

My understanding of the origins of the sport is that some guy's taught themselves in hang-gliders and then stuck some small engines on them. And they helped teach some friends and … you know … stuff like that. Let's see who does that remind me of? The Wright brothers?

Maybe the thing is that asking a CFI to half teach someone to fly isn't really worth the exposure in a myriad of ways to the CFI or the money spent to the student, and despite the protests from many the best way forward for up and coming ultralight pilots is to start out with hang gliders and developing a comradery of knowledge and skill with others of a like mind.
 

Victor Bravo

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If a card carrying CFI wants to train ultralight pilots, what is the reward for them. The knowledge that the student isn't even likely to stick around past solo?

despite the protests from many the best way forward for up and coming ultralight pilots is to start out with hang gliders and developing a comradery of knowledge and skill with others of a like mind.
I have to respectfully disagree strongly.

The "reward" is that you are being part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. One less fatality because a CFI provided basic airmanship skill. One less news report with the coroner's wagon in the background. One less grieving family. One MORE family that supports aviation, votes against an airport closure, etc.

In the early days of "figure it out yourself if you survive long enough" ultralighting and hang gliding, the accident and fatality rates were X. Now that the industry has created instructional programs, certified instructors, schools, curriculum, safety guidelines, and started largely "self-policing" itself, that accident/fatality rate is somehting like 2 or 3 % of X.

That is a causal relationship as far as I am concerned.
 

lr27

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Did the fatality rate go down before the training exemption was rescinded?

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Crow Island Airpark, west of Boston, is offering instruction in trikes. I believe these are light sport. However, they specifically mention "ultralight students" on their site.
http://www.crowislandairpark.com/weight-shift-trikes/
A few years ago, I lived close enough to see guys from their flying overhead now and then. Given that they're having a fly in this weekend, I suspect they're still relatively active.
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Is the liability exposure for ultralight oriented instruction by a CFE that much worse than instruction oriented toward getting a sport pilot's license? Than for a regular private pilot's license?
 

jedi

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.......

Is the liability exposure for ultralight oriented instruction by a CFE that much worse than instruction oriented toward getting a sport pilot's license? Than for a regular private pilot's license?
I believe there is much less liability in ultralight training than in sport pilot or private pilot. There is less chance negligence for not complying with standards or regulations.
 
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