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Type 4 VW engine pros/cons?

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don january

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I Have to kinda side with Jumpinjan. on the type 4 and 1,2,3, think about it guys what year was the last 4 cylinder boxer vw made ? kinda like the corvair I know theres thousands of hours on these engines and working good. but today I poped the hood on my wifes car(1999) Avenger and looked at the 2.5 LT. dodge v6. then I got to thinking of the newest cars out there designed for saving fuel, fuel injected, and all the modern upgrades and many all aluminum blocks heads ect. I bet the new vw engine of 2015 probably inline 4 is as light as the type1 how about you dig up one of them and start a new item for we can have something new to scratch our heads about? heck I bet the motor out of one of those MINI Coopers would fit inside the type 4. YA never know!!!;)
 
S

SvingenB

I bet the motor out of one of those MINI Coopers would fit inside the type 4. YA never know!!!;)
That is the main problem. Modern car engines are seemingly small and compact, but they are also heavy, and incredibly complicated. A conversion would consist of making a PSRU that is compact and light, but more problematic - a ECU for aviation use has to be made - from scratch. Using a carburetor and old fashioned ignition, these new engines would default back to how engines were 30-40 years ago, and then a type 4 would be much better option. Then, let's say you found a nice engine. The PSRU will cost anywhere from € 5-10k. The ECU will cost €5k and the engine itself maybe €5k. So you end up with a more or less good contraption costing the same as a Rotax 912, but much heavier. Look at the Viking engine with the Honda motor.
 

don january

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your right of course!(SvingenB) " that WAM diesel in the RV is a thing of awsomeness" but any new powerplant is very expensive. I want to stay on track with the post so I jumped back and was reading some items Mark Langford was talking about installing a type 4 VW in his KR and chose the corvair instead. I'd say (Derek)Mark would be my first choice on learning more about the quality and do's and don'ts of the type 4. BUT THATS JUST ME. William Wynne could be another good source of info. There not trying to sell them and probably will shoot straight . by the way your" seeing it"
 

rv6ejguy

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That is the main problem. Modern car engines are seemingly small and compact, but they are also heavy, and incredibly complicated. A conversion would consist of making a PSRU that is compact and light, but more problematic - a ECU for aviation use has to be made - from scratch. Using a carburetor and old fashioned ignition, these new engines would default back to how engines were 30-40 years ago, and then a type 4 would be much better option. Then, let's say you found a nice engine. The PSRU will cost anywhere from € 5-10k. The ECU will cost €5k and the engine itself maybe €5k. So you end up with a more or less good contraption costing the same as a Rotax 912, but much heavier. Look at the Viking engine with the Honda motor.
Some modern car engines are decently light- Subaru EJ SOHC longblock under 190 lbs. Suzuki G13 and 2.5/2.7L V6 also light. Have some good PSRU solutions for $2500-$5000 in those hp ranges (Raven. SPG-3/4 and from Autoflight for the Subarus and V6 Suzukis.

Programmable aviation ECUs been available for over 20 years- SDS EM-4: Aircraft

There are thousands of auto engines flying successfully worldwide today. Watch the component weights carefully and they can be competitive for power to weight ratio. Done right, the costs are way less than a comparable Rotax or Lycoming engine- again proven by many people over the years.
 
S

SvingenB

There probably are as many well operating (modern) auto conversions as there are auto engine wizards in the world wide homebuilt community. For us less knowledgeable, there are few or none commercially available true and tested packages. The situation is nothing like the tens of thousands of VW conversions flying and dozens of different engines still available today.
 

rv6ejguy

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There probably are as many well operating (modern) auto conversions as there are auto engine wizards in the world wide homebuilt community. For us less knowledgeable, there are few or none commercially available true and tested packages. The situation is nothing like the tens of thousands of VW conversions flying and dozens of different engines still available today.
Look to Raven (Suzuki) Raven Rotorcraft Redrives: Geo-Suzuki Engine Conversion for Gyroplanes and Ultralights and Air Trikes (Suzuki, Honda, Subaru, BMW) Air Trikes: Engines and Conversion Kits. for some proven lightweight engine packages in the 65-130hp range- been doing those for over 15 years.

RAM engines and Stratus have been doing Subaru packages for many years. RAM Performance,Ltd - Home

RAF delivered over 600 EJ powered gyros alone with a fleetwide 125,000 flight hours as of 2006 (probably a lot more as of today). Welcome to RAF
 
S

SvingenB

That RAM 115A looks kind of nice, but US$ 14k is a lot at todays exchange rate. You still have to add cooling system. fuel pumps and so on (not much info on the site). We are talking Rotax 912 prices here.
 

rv6ejguy

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That RAM 115A looks kind of nice, but US$ 14k is a lot at todays exchange rate. You still have to add cooling system. fuel pumps and so on (not much info on the site). We are talking Rotax 912 prices here.
Yes, the current USD exchange rate would certainly hurt sales outside the US.
 

cheapracer

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Some modern car engines are decently light- Suzuki G13
I reckon the Toyota 1ZZ is the logical replacement and a step up from the G13 series. 1.8 litre, 100hp at 4800rpm (135 at 6000) decently light; complete running car engine including flywheel, starter motor, water pump, power steering pump and air conditioner pump along with drive belts = 110kgs. Obviously can get to sub 100kgs and the rpms dropped a bit after optimisation. I believe it can better the Viking by a margin.
 

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