twin boom pusher plans

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by cheetah650, Jan 15, 2009.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 15, 2009 #1

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    are there any plans built twim boom pusher design available to homebuilder? it could be composite or metal.
     
  2. Jan 15, 2009 #2

    Dana

    Dana

    Dana

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,674
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Why specifically do you want a twin boom pusher?

    -Dana

    Everyone who lives dies; yet not everyone who dies, has lived.
     
  3. Jan 16, 2009 #3

    etterre

    etterre

    etterre

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
  4. Jan 16, 2009 #4

    Grimace

    Grimace

    Grimace

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Wasn't somebody building a Vampire replica?
     
  5. Jan 16, 2009 #5

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    becuase i need a non-canard pusher design that leaves me either twin boom pusher or mid engine pusher. issues with mid engine configuration has scared me away (difficulty with engine installation and cooling, pitch sensitivity). single boom pusher can also do but they are very rare as i can see it.
     
  6. Jan 16, 2009 #6

    Dana

    Dana

    Dana

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,674
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Location:
    CT, USA
    What do you mean by "mid engine"? Engine over the wing, like the Kolbs? They're single boom pushers...

    But what are your other requirements? Fast, slow, number of seats, range, etc.?

    -Dana

    The early bird catches the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.
     
  7. Jan 16, 2009 #7

    Mac790

    Mac790

    Mac790

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    I think he's talking about something similar to Gray's project, you know engine in the middle of the plane.

    Seb
     
  8. Jan 16, 2009 #8

    Mac790

    Mac790

    Mac790

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    What's wrong with canard pushers, Berkut with 200 HP engine, has a top speed above 200 kts, range 2000nm with aux tanks.

    Difficulties with engine instalation?
    It's for sure harder task than a "conventional" design, but it isn't impossible. Who said that designing, buliding planes is easy.

    Cooling?
    It's easier to use water cooled engine, than air-cooled. Everything what you need is a proper radiator under belly, similar to Mick Long Ez. (attachment 1, 2)
    Mick Duckt N7XR
    Of course you need to do some calculations and tests/experiments.

    Seb
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Jan 16, 2009 #9

    MalcolmW

    MalcolmW

    MalcolmW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    6
    Er, Cheetah650;

    have you looked at the American PatriotII aircraft? I don't know if they offer plans, however, their aircraft is definitely a twin-boom. See: American Patriot Aircraft :: Home

    Fly safe,
    MalcolmW
     
  10. Jan 16, 2009 #10

    etterre

    etterre

    etterre

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Thanks Malcolm - I hadn't seen that one before. I'll add that to my collection.

    As far as I know, the T-100D is the only twin boom pusher that's currently available as plans-built. I'd love to be wrong since I really like the look - and it makes it soooo much easier to pretend I'm flying a P-38 :gig: My favorite design is the ION (Ion Aircraft), but their plan is to only sell it as a kit and, based on the "completeness" of the planned kit, I'm currently assuming that it's way out of my budget league:cry: Still drooling, though.

    To cheetah650: I would wonder, though... What is the "flying mission" for which you want a twin-boom pusher?
     
  11. Jan 16, 2009 #11

    addaon

    addaon

    addaon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,686
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Don't forget the option of a boomless, tailless pusher! 'course, there don't seem to be many of those out there yet. :-D
     
  12. Jan 16, 2009 #12

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    While I absolutely agree that the ION is a neat, pretty airplane, that project seems to be grinding to a halt over the last year or so. Web updates are less frequent and less positive - and more vague - and I read about them doing some rather major redesign work. New wing?

    From the point of view of an outside spectator, they have the appearance of a group that "can't let go of the design", and will keep tweaking it endlessly until their money runs out. I may be 100% wrong in that, but they had first flight going on two years ago, and still haven't started setting up the manufacturing, customer support, and marketing areas of their business. In other words, they've got about twenty percent of the work in setting up their business actually done, in the form of a flying airplane.

    I wish them well. The market could use some new blood.
     
  13. Jan 16, 2009 #13

    etterre

    etterre

    etterre

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    More vague? Less frequent? That's possible? :roll:

    I hadn't heard about any redesign work or a new wing...they are switching engines, though (for the third? time) I'd be curious to hear more about them (here or pm or new thread or whatever). The only "news" I ever see is from the Yahoo! group... and it's always from one guy... and he's never very talkative. As far as I know, the wing structure hasn't changed. It's still an aluminum wing, but bonded instead of riveted. :para:

    My fear with them has always been that they'd get a prototype (or two) flying, sell some kits (somewhere between 5 and 50), and then fold for any one of a hundred different reasons (new "51% rule", too many LSA designs, ran out of money, couldn't build kits quickly enough, etc.). They've done a lot of work and it seems like the design is solid, so it would be a shame to see the design die... but I'm not confident that they'll still have a viable business by the time I have enough cash saved up to do anything.
     
  14. Jan 16, 2009 #14

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Check their website. The new wing is (passingly) mentioned in the September 2008 update.

    And yes, I share your concerns. They've got a neat product, to all appearances, but are being rather typical engineers in that they seem to be tweaking it over and over again, and not settling down to the process of actually starting the company. That's a huge project in and of itself. Probably as massive, overall, as designing the aircraft and building the prototype.
     
  15. Jan 16, 2009 #15

    etterre

    etterre

    etterre

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    :depressed
    Ahhh $#!+ Now I see it. I remember that, at the time, Steve was going on and on about wing-tips. So I probably skimmed over it and saw "new wing tips" instead of "new wings."

    Now I'm really bummed :depressed: Maybe someday I'll get to see the prototype fly...
     
  16. Jan 16, 2009 #16

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Oh, it's been flying since July 2007. And to all accounts, the flight testing has been going well. Since 2007. Thus my concern.
     
  17. Jan 16, 2009 #17

    etterre

    etterre

    etterre

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Yeah, I know that the prototype has flown (but they've never even hinted about how many hours or what maneuvers have been tested). I was actually thinking more along the lines of "Nuts. I'll probably never see an ION besides the prototype. Maybe I'll get to see it fly."

    I'm now awaiting the message saying that I've been booted off the Yahoo! group. :)
     
  18. Jan 16, 2009 #18

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,833
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Ah. Yes. Well, you know how it goes. Some of the most interesting designs never see the light of profitable sales, as it were.
     
  19. Jan 16, 2009 #19

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    cheetah650

    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    by mid engine i mean gray's project, BD-5 or LH-10 from lh aviaition.

    My dream plane has unlimited visibility (like a glider or a jet fighter) tandem seating for two. Speed and range is pretty much at the bottom of the wish list. 130 knots is more than enough and i will hardly need more than 400 mile range. I'd like to have nice glide ratio too.

    it is open to discussion but canard spoils visibility and looks for me. a long ez or berkut less canard is a fast looking plane with swept wing and sleek fuselage. plus a plane needs to look like a plane plus burt no longer thinks canard is an efficient design.

    as for engine installation difficulty, did i mention i plan to use a automotive conversion diesel? issues with long drive shaft is coupled with engine's relatively higher torque ripple. not to mention lower moment of inertia around CG thus comes pitch sensitivity.




    wow havent seen this one. glad to see that pusher can be STOL too. apparently a 'its only' design. it seems they pushed too hard to avoid compound curves in the fuselage. then they ended up what looks like extrusion of a 2D drawing :)

    My ultimate mission is sight seeing. There is absolutely nothing i cant trade for visibility.

    As for Ion project. They are actually working as fast as they can. Needless to say they are under funded. They are working on an engine replacement right now. Goal is to have shipped at least one kit by the end of the year. Wish it was a plans built. And I am concerned over their reliance on composites universal for kit manufacturing. A kit producer has to have in-house manufacturing facility IMO. my $0.02.

    Then there was this invertedvtail.com. their website is defunc so they went belly up i take it. I just plane dont see why it is so darn difficult to get a kit business up and running. :ermm:
     
  20. Jan 16, 2009 #20

    MalcolmW

    MalcolmW

    MalcolmW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    6
    Hello, Cheetah650;

    well, you have some demanding requirements - a great observation plane that's inexpensive to build from plans... Well, that's why we dream.

    There was an aircraft that was briefly in production that had superb visibility and had a proposed role of substituting for helicopters due to its extreme STOL characteristics, plus a 270 degree view from the cockpit (side by side). Unfortunately, the person who was the driving force behind this aircraft died, and no one (apparently) continued.

    It was an aircraft by the name of 'SkyMaxx' made in Germany, and I believe the US sales representative was Oxford Aviation. For a picture of this craft, see: Artikel drucken - Sky-Maxx. A very special aircraft There were other sites, but most have been taken down.

    Good luck in your search, and always fly safe.

    MalcolmW
     

Share This Page



arrow_white