Turbine engine discussion

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by flyvulcan, Jun 9, 2016.

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  1. Jun 11, 2016 #21

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

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    I'm not going to defend that number, because I more or less pulled it out of my long-archived memory of when I worked on the ALF502 engine. I think the T-55 and Proteus are at the top end of power for engines with centrifugal HPC; at the small end they're pretty universal, but I don't where the cutoff is
     
  2. Jun 11, 2016 #22

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

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    Yes, the PBS TJ-100 is in use on the Subsonex and a TP-100 has been put to use on an RV-10.
     
  3. Jun 11, 2016 #23

    Acrojet

    Acrojet

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    Well,
    It's not my engine or my proprietary information, it's the developers. I'm just having him build something that I've finally convinced him to build. I've been guiding him down a certain path to make this engine viable.

    It's a geared fan, the core engine has one centrifugal compressor and a single stage turbine. It is a reverse flow annular combustor. It is a single shaft spool where the spline drive unit goes into a gear box and steps down the engine rpm to spin the 14" fan. So you can see, by keeping the design simple with proven technologies and a low parts count, the low cost can be achieved. As stated, this company is small and has a low "overhead" and it's an experimental engine and not "certified" which saves a ton of cash during research and development and ultimately fabrication. To think that he will put out a 650-700lbf motor with all the bells and whistles at the same basic price as the PBS TJ100 ($55,000) is pretty darn exciting stuff.
    Stay tuned!
     
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  4. Jun 11, 2016 #24

    Doggzilla

    Doggzilla

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    I think thats fair to say.
     
  5. Jun 11, 2016 #25

    Doggzilla

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    From your post, you did not read ANY of the other members posts from this or other threads. You didnt even bother to learn the size of the engine we are talking about, or the pressure ratios we had been discussing. In other words, you are here talking down to us without even knowing what we are talking about...

    And it takes years to learn how to make complex parts on milling equipment. A CNC is magnitudes less complex than having to learn how to machine by hand.

    Lastly and most importantly, all of the things you are listing are already taken into consideration. The specific fuel consumption is the specific fuel consumption DESPITE everything you just listed.

    If three stage williams turbines are already doing what he is looking for, what makes you think any of the limitations you just stated are valid?

    You are completely ignoring any of the dozen examples already given, and using examples you should know are not valid.

    If you arent going to read and you are just going to come in an crap on people, please, go somewhere else.
     
  6. Jun 11, 2016 #26

    DangerZone

    DangerZone

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    Yeah, that's the one, 60kg dry and 71kg with accessories. The consumption is declared at about 18 to 36 gallons, which seems a lot for a homebuilt.

    TP100_rez.jpg

    If a prop needs to be used, then an engine like the Nissan 1.5 turbo 3 cylinder with a proper PSRU might be a better option. It would burn less than half that at better performance cause it's a 300kW peak engine at lower mass (40kg dry).
    19du5vmuzp56.jpg


    Sounds promising, I hope it will be up to the expectations. Did you manage to calculate the fuel consumption with your (scaled) aircraft drag? Some of the F-16 deisgn features are made for supersonic flight yet they might be increasing drag at subsonic speeds. Removing them from the fuselage might imrove efficiency and contribute to lower fuel consumption (or better performance).
     
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  7. Jul 22, 2016 #27

    AVT

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    Any body here know about the Turbomeca Aspin II engine? The size and weight are greater, but the performance is about the same.
     
  8. Jul 22, 2016 #28

    TFF

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    You don't want any Turbomeca products. They sell parts in trickle down. Highest most important get parts first. When starting a turbine engine, the T wheel is running hotter than when the engine is at full power. The heat just kills the turbine. The number of starts is the number of times it can be overheated in a safe range. True over temp kills it in one start. Overheated makes parts crack and at some point it frags. number of starts is the point you should get before frag becomes a question; there is a percent built in, but that is their limit. You could always start until it comes apart.
     
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  9. Jul 22, 2016 #29

    Lucrum

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    I flew those engines years ago. On a CL-60. I recall doing something like 6 engine changes in one 14 month period.
     
  10. Jul 22, 2016 #30

    Swampyankee

    Swampyankee

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    I don't remember unsolved problems -- I was one of the test engineers on the program -- but running one or two engines for a couple of hundred hours and a few thousand cycles in a test cell is not quite the same as having them out in the wild. I do remember that Canadair lost a flight crew when one of their test aircraft went into a flat spin during testing in the Mojave and that the Canadian certification authorities were not happy with the aircraft's departure characteristics.

    I kind of think it's humorous that Pratt is now touting their geared fan like it's the first time anybody every thought of it.
     
  11. Jul 22, 2016 #31

    D Hillberg

    D Hillberg

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    Gas turbines come in all shapes and sizes, and the BS rant is sour grapes.

    axil flow stages on T53 & T63 (250- series) number one reason for retirement isn't FOD it's blade root corrosion, the L-39 engine was a POS when compared to any other of same configuration.

    The Jet exec was modified with a GPU with conditional limits (as long as the wheels had the proper P/N S/N) 150 hp on tap @13 t0 16 gph.
    It works great, acceleration spot on, and the resale values are very good.

    Turbines are not cheap but they do a great job in the weight to performance department.:whistle:
     

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  12. Jul 22, 2016 #32

    Lucrum

    Lucrum

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    I actually remember that crash. As I recall doing a natural stall in a CL-60 with the stick pusher disabled resulted in a rapid 180 deg roll.
    The engine problems we had were fleet wide. Been a long time but I think it had something to do with a bad internal coating that was coming apart in the engines.
     

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