Tig Setup you use

Discussion in 'Tube and Fabric' started by JohnS, Jun 2, 2015.

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  1. Jul 7, 2015 #21

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

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    I agree it is a skill set, but also a limited one. You cant gain heart surgeon control; you pretty much have what you have. What the knowledge is is knowing how to cheat your body to get it done. It is a bunch of micro movements and if you can put one aside a while, you can spend more time on the bigger problems. Them move down to the finesse. I have always found practice coupons go so far. At a certain point you have to start the work, and at the end you may want to go grind some welds out and do over. I find I weld better in the game than practice. Everybody is different and everybody has to do it their way to a certain extent, but if I have welded 30 clusters and only have a trash can of steel, I probably will not get it done. Either too hard on my self, or I need to be a pedestrian.
     
  2. Jul 14, 2015 #22

    CCCP

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    A picture is worth a thousand words. Let's see some pictures of your beads, guys. Who's first?
     
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  3. Jul 19, 2015 #23

    Head in the clouds

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    Hah - well you certainly know how to stifle a thread ... :gig:

    I'm not proud, you can have a look at my welds, they're not that great, it's a long while since I was welding regularly but as I get on with my present project they're getting a little better each day. You can read more of my tribulations in the DooMaw build log and DooMaw discussion thread if you like - links in my signature line ...

    All constructive criticism appreciated -

    DSCN2650.jpg

    SDC12306.jpg
     
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  4. Jul 22, 2015 #24

    dcstrng

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    I’d be tickled to death if mine looked like that – my TIG looks like O/A roasting and my O/A often looks like bubble gum… Testing to failure they seem to hold, but they’ll need a layer or two of bondo to look pretty:speechles
     
  5. Jul 23, 2015 #25

    clanon

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    Yup , sometime i'd like to believe that looks could be deceptive in welds...:ponder:
     
  6. Jul 23, 2015 #26

    Head in the clouds

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    Thanks for the kind words dcstrng, I'm happy enough with how the welding is going now but there's always plenty of room for improvement, it's just time in the seat and they get better as you weld more regularly, like any learned skill.

    I did also benefit greatly from watching the Miller education videos on YouTube, they contain a lot of helpful tips which help to isolate what you might be doing wrong.

    The main things I constantly concentrate on are -

    * Being sure I'm directing the heat at the parent material and not just at the filler material
    * Keeping the arc tight by having a well ground tungsten, keeping it close to the work so the flame doesn't get large and overheat large areas - and that closeness means just accepting contaminating and changing the tungsten more often, I keep half a dozen of them ground both ends so I don't have to stop welding and re-grind too often
    * Keeping the arc close to vertical rather than angled
    * Being comfortable and able to see the puddle clearly, with both hands having something to rest on - I have lots of wood blocks of different sizes available
    * Keep the arc focussed on the thicker or bigger piece of the material being joined, and shield the thinner piece/edge with the filler rod, add the filler material to the thinner piece, it helps to keep it cooler
    * Keep everything really clean before welding - power wire brushing
    * Keep the filler rod tip in the gas shield to stop it carburising
    * Weld with the grain where possible but in any case weld toward a place where it is easy to end the weld - I always start in the throat of a joint and end at the toe. Add a bit of extra filler material before shutting off the arc, it helps to reduce the crater.
    * Practice the movement of the torch around the joint before starting the arc to be sure you can keep the tungsten angled properly all the way around, if not pre-plan a stop halfway and a quick change to a new position so that you can restart the arc while the post-flow gas is still flowing. I use an 8sec post-flow, the max setting on my machine.

    Another little something that I discovered with my welder. Sadly it's not a Miller, or anything like it, it's a cheap Chinese jobbie but it does do most things OK. I've had a few issues with the pulse feature but now think I have sorted out its vagaries. To be able to get really low amperages for very thin material, and to prevent overheating even the larger pieces (049/058 wall for example), and if using a foot controller for the amperage (I don't know how you could weld thin stuff happily without one) it's important to set the background current to as low as the machine will allow (mine's 20%) and the peak power to zero. Then set the controller on the foot control to 85% approx. This will allow the pulse to work properly and the background amperage to be quite low. However, if you have the foot controller set to 100% the background power will be 20% of the total capability of the machine, mine's 200Amps so that would be 40% background power which is way too hot ... with the foot controller set to anything less than 100% it drops the background power massively, to more like 8-10 amps, just an anomaly of the cheap machine I guess.

    My welds are still improving, here are this morning's efforts -

    Hope some of it helps.

    DSCN2692.jpg

    DSCN2695.jpg

    DSCN2697.jpg

    DSCN2699.jpg

    DSCN2700.jpg
     
  7. Aug 5, 2015 #27

    Little Scrapper

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    Here's a weld I did about 3 weeks ago, I took a photo of it for you just now. My old Miller puked on me a couple years back and I just had no need for a TIG. I walked in to Praxair to get a new Helmet and I saw the Lincoln 210 Power Mig on sale for about $900. I bought it. It's a multi process machine that will do TIG, the weld below was done on my little 210. I personally love my Oxy set-up and that's what I started with when I was a kid. I'm a master Plumber with an interesting past welding in power plants, hospitals etc. I've used extremely expensive machines and extremely cheap ones. Don't get too hung up on purchasing more stuff, what you need is practice and focus.
    weldment.jpg

    After many years of welding I'm confident enough with my knowledge to say this is a good weld. But one picture doesn't tell the whole story, this weld was the result of me practicing for 2 hours getting to know my new machine. The other welds were pretty bad, haha.

    So, even with 20+ years of experience, and by that I mean welding every single day not after work as a hobby, I still needed to practice. Re-read what I just wrote. It's important. Keep in mind you are just a guy trying to build one airplane, you want to have fun and you want it safe when you are in the air. If you are not welding every day you can't expect stellar results all the time right? I haven't welded since this photo 3 weeks ago and guess what? If I picked up my torch my first few welds are gonna look pretty bad, that's the nature or art......and that's what welding is, it's an art.

    My advice is to focus on 3 things, being relaxed, heat control, motion control.

    Being Relaxed

    1.) More bad welds are caused from nervousness and lack of being steady than any other aspect of welding. If you don't believe me here's a test that was given to me when I was getting my degree in welding - take a piece of paper and trace around a coffee saucer with a pencil. Now take your torch (unplugged) and float it around the circle with one hand only. Watch how much your hand floats around, haha. Practice this, it's harder than it looks. If you can do this and learn breathing, foot position, arm position, head position and chest position you'll be a good welder.

    2.) Heat. Welding is heat control. Period. Don't practice welding practice heat control. The best way to practice heat control is to simply weld lines on thin sheet, hundreds of them.

    3.) Motion control. Unfortunately many novice welders focus on this first and that is wrong. If you focus on points 1 & 2 then motion control becomes easier. This is stuff they taught us in school and they are 100% right.

    A relaxed welder who understands heat control produces great welds.

    Besides that, I can tell you that grinding the Tungsten wrong can cause a lot of problems. When I use to do more TIG welding for a living I would sharpen a dozen at a time and at any point I felt I needed to change it out I would. Once you get in your groove you don't want to be grinding Tungsten.....do that ahead of time.

    Anyhow, good luck chasing that weld puddle around.

    Mike
     
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  8. Aug 5, 2015 #28

    Little Scrapper

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    It's worth mentioning, if it hasn't been said already, that part of what makes a great weld on any thin walled tube structure is a good cope. Really really take your time to make sure adjacent tubes are cut well. Otherwise, you will be fighting that issue. I'm sure you've realized by now that when you are welding it's a complete joy to weld a nicely cut joint. A lot can be said about that.
     
  9. Aug 5, 2015 #29

    dcstrng

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    I used to be intimidated when I’d see the superb welds of real craftsmen/pros, and still am, but I’m learning to be grateful for all the free advice as well… I probably will continue to stay with O/A for those difficult upside-down, out of position and/or not-quite-perfect joints, but keep working away at the rudiments of TIG (maybe will be there once I get the airframe done). I just added a gas-lens to my budget setup and maybe it’s just me, but it seemed to help – but I’ve about convince myself I’ll never get to doing a foot of bead properly; however, every now and again I can get an inch here or there.
     
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  10. Aug 5, 2015 #30

    Little Scrapper

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    Remember, Larry, when you do it every day all day that's the pictures you see. You see the best, not the worst. I guess that was my point. And I can even pick on myself, I no longer weld as much as I use to because now my business focuses on service and repair. As a result my welds, "how the look", suffer. But that doesn't mean it won't work.

    The fella above posted some welds and although it may not be the prettiest looking thing there's really not much wrong with it.

    And nobody needs a pulse start machine who is a hobbiest. A good welder can take any machine and weld great with it.

    Anyhow, I love my Oxy set-up, especially my Meco with the light weight hoses. If you ever get a chance to see welds done by Paul Poberezney it's a humbling experience. He was really good with a gas torch.
     
  11. Aug 5, 2015 #31

    TFF

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    Meco hoses on a Smith. The Meco is a little tiring to hold, I find. I will say the service form the Tinman is excellent ,when we had a problem with it. Probably more because monkeys like me were handling it.
     
  12. Aug 5, 2015 #32

    Little Scrapper

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    I've never used a Smith but I hear some guys really like it.
     
  13. Nov 29, 2015 #33

    TreeTopPilot

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  14. Jan 26, 2016 #34

    LarryG

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    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    I'm new here just posting some pictures of an engine mount I'm building and the jig also. Miller Diversion 180
     
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  15. Jan 27, 2016 #35

    ekimneirbo

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    Looks like you are doing a very nice job. How bout some pictures of your welder, explanation of its features, and what you think of its capabilities.

    If purchasing a new machine would you go the same route or buy one with any other features? You obviously have very good welding skills and the

    machine is capable, but would it be your choice again? I ask that because builders thinking about buying a Tig want honest opinions, and want to

    know what can do the job and give them the best value for their dollar. (Water cooling ?)

    Miller Diversion 180 AC DC TIG Welder Complete 907627 | eBay


    Miller Diversion 165 AC DC TIG Welder 907626 | eBay
     
  16. Jan 27, 2016 #36

    LarryG

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    I really like the machine it does just fine for the novice person doing home use. It works perfect for the project that I'm building PA 18 super cub. The only thing that I did not like with the machine is the hand control for the temperature. I ended up taking the hand control off it was too hard for me to control and I put the standard tip on with the gas Lens and then use the foot control. I never did any tig welding before this project so I spent the whole year practicing with it before I started on my plane. image.jpeg image.jpg
    Would I buy it again yes I would for the first time buyer in user getting into take welding for project like I am doing is more than adequate. Does not have all the fancy bells and whistles like you're more expensive machines.

    Thank you for the kind words ekimneirbo
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  17. Jan 27, 2016 #37

    bmcj

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  18. Jan 27, 2016 #38

    LarryG

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    Thank you bmcj
     

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