# Those bargain basement airplanes

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#### deftone

Asking 3 times in less than 24hrs? You must be desperate for a Cadet, give the guy a chance to respond or go take a look on barnstormers where he said it was posted.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
How about a Luscombe? I think you'd need to be careful with an inspection but they can be had reasonable.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Well, round 3 of my latest sport of "Lets find him an Airplane" has bagged an Aeronca Chief. The owner's wife does not want him hand-propping anymore, so the 140 Cessna has now become the family bird. His poor Chief is sitting and she is on him to sell it. FINALLY got a chance to speak with him, turns out it has a few problems...first are the mech. brakes....wow...unobtanium is the word for Aeronca brake parts. Looks like it is cheaper to fit hydraulic brakes vs fixing the old system. 65 Conti, just a couple of hundred hours since MOH and clean, but a weird look to the fuselage on the left side. Awaiting a chance to look at the logs. Owner describes it as an honest old Chief...pity not a Super Chief.

Any warnings, etc to beware of? STCs met, recent check of the spars, (yup, wood spars) as well as the struts. I have been told the gear can be problematic due to wear of the oleos. I did find a parts bird as well (7AC), so it may be worth it. Any comments pro/con? I have flown one of the Franklin twin Aeroncas, so I'm aware of the performance of the plane with the 65 in it. An 85 upgrade would probably be a future plan. Decent fabric, decent engine, anything I am missing?? A friend used to tell me that he would go soaring with his....Dunno how true...but plenty of wing to say the least.

Thanks!

Derswede

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
What could be bad after 70 years? :gig:
Check the lower fuselage tubes for rust. Probe lightly with ice pick. Check tail tubes, cables and pulleys.
Look for spar cracks from tip strike.

My Chief soared an hour once in Alaska.
Get some spin training. I got into an accidental spin once.

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Fabric on the wing tip bows tends to pull them in and rub on the ailerons.

I was under the impression that conversion of the 65 to 75hp or 85hp was no longer allowed?

Brake parts just magically never wear out and it seems that we always find one of those little brake clips, that was lost years ago, setting in the corner of the hangar when it's really needed

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Bigger engine takes it out of LSA. The bigger engine planes have more gross; conversion messes it up. Big engine Champs are worth less than small engine ones.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Well, round 3 of my latest sport of "Lets find him an Airplane" has bagged an Aeronca Chief. The owner's wife does not want him hand-propping anymore, so the 140 Cessna has now become the family bird. His poor Chief is sitting and she is on him to sell it. FINALLY got a chance to speak with him, turns out it has a few problems...first are the mech. brakes....wow...unobtanium is the word for Aeronca brake parts. Looks like it is cheaper to fit hydraulic brakes vs fixing the old system. 65 Conti, just a couple of hundred hours since MOH and clean, but a weird look to the fuselage on the left side. Awaiting a chance to look at the logs. Owner describes it as an honest old Chief...pity not a Super Chief.

Any warnings, etc to beware of? STCs met, recent check of the spars, (yup, wood spars) as well as the struts. I have been told the gear can be problematic due to wear of the oleos. I did find a parts bird as well (7AC), so it may be worth it. Any comments pro/con? I have flown one of the Franklin twin Aeroncas, so I'm aware of the performance of the plane with the 65 in it. An 85 upgrade would probably be a future plan. Decent fabric, decent engine, anything I am missing?? A friend used to tell me that he would go soaring with his....Dunno how true...but plenty of wing to say the least.
There's nothing on the plane that can't be built and that includes the brakes. I had a Luscombe with cable actuated mechanical brakes and they worked fine. Had to make several parts for those brakes, including a cam plate. The brake shoes (drum brakes) were readily available. Hydraulic brake upgrade would be nice to have but it will be expensive.

Upgrading to a C-85-8F is permitted by the TCDS and service letter. A logbook entry is all that's needed. Finding the engine will be the most difficult part of the conversion. If you're really into it, installing a MacDowell starter is a possibility. Pay attention to the fuel system, not as forgiving as a Champ.

A 7AC isn't much of a parts donor as they don't have that much in common.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the comments. Am awaiting approval at aeronica.org now and they seem to have tons on info on keeping the old birds in the air. The 7AC is a poor abandoned plane I found, may just buy it and part it out, it can live on by keeping other airplanes flying.

Derswede

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Don't part it out!

#### lr27

##### Well-Known Member
Long ago, I was up in a Taylorcraft BC-12D. It was a bit tricky for me to get in, but it flew fine with two fairly heavy guys in it. On 65 hp. Slowest accelerating vehicle I've been in, but all of a sudden the wheels weren't rumbling anymore and we had used up, as I remember, less than half of an 1800 foot runway. I was once in a 182 taking off from the same runway, with three heavy people, and I was starting to put my arms in front of my face by the time we rotated. The Taylorcraft seemed to slip quite well on the way back down, which was good because the trees were quite tall on that end of the runway. Controls were wheels not sticks. As I recall, the BC12's were known to be faster than a bunch of other airplanes of the same general sort.

#### blane.c

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I owned an a-65 powered 7-AC champ from 1985 to 1989 and flew it 93hrs including flight training (all Alaska time). The cable brakes need adjusting every couple of flights more or less (if you want brakes), I learned to hand prop from front and rear of propeller because depending on location and conditions sometimes it was safer to do it one way vs the other. The primer lines are copper and work harden right at the nut were they connect to the engine and break off or crack (affects idle and causes a lean condition), I carried a little envelope of ferrules in the glove box so that I could fix them when necessary. The primer line broke off at the primer once and I had to plug the hole with my finger until I got back to the airport. With me and a fat friend on a summer day it was a challenge to nurse a climb rate. Back when they used cotton and linen the little baggage rack behind the rear seat sometimes would rot out on people, I have read several reports were it dropped a fuel strainer into the space under the floor and jammed the controls. Being non electric it may not have shielded ignition or resister plugs and radio's may not work well if that is the case. Rot is most susceptible were the bolts go thru the spar so the bolts have to be removed (one at a time) to check. I thought the Champ was a great little flier and I had a wonderful time flying about checking out the scenery.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Guys, thank you for all your great comments...I have learned a ton. The Chief is still on the short list, the owner has not yet made up his mind if he will sell or not, but just got a call from a friend. His Father in law passed, and they have 3 airplanes for sale.... a 172, a Mooney Ranger and a tailwheel converted Tripacer. It seems the Pacer will be LSA, so have started chatting with him, have a possible buyer for the 172 out of country and would get the Pacer with some  and as commission on the sale of the 172. What I have read shows the Pacer to be LSA range (this is a 150 Pacer), and do have a local CFI who would work with me, esp. if I base the bird at his strip. My first ride was in a Tripacer when I was a kid and Tripacers were new, and my brother used to own one. Maintenance is not a major consideration, I have restored several airplanes and have a friend who is an A&P. Awaiting the logs at present, and to see who did the tailwheel STC on it. Paint and fabric look good, will have a pro look at it as well. Guess it is Sport Pilot time! Still building hours in a 150, will have to start flying something with a tailwheel soon, if this goes thru. Comments or is this a "just do it, stupid!" move?

Derswede

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
I would take a look at the numbers on a Pacer. I dont think its LSA by a big margin. I like them, but I dont think its close.

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
The Pacer is a 4 seater, and way over the LSA 1320# weight limit, so definitely not LSA.

Dana

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
To threepeat,

Pacer not even close to LSA.

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
Ah, looked at the wrong numbers....saw 1320# and did not realise that was gross weight for LSA. Yup, the PA22 can schup some 1850# off the ground, dry wt of 1060. Oh, well, PPL or bust, or see if I can convince the Chief owner to sell. Anyone want a nice PA22-150?

Derswede

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Anyone want a nice PA22-150?
Yes, post the specs, data and/or contact

#### Derswede

##### Well-Known Member
The family is deciding whether to sell as is or with fresh annuals. Will move this over to the for sale side when I get full info, any one wanting more data, please PM me so as to keep traffic off the forum. I will be visiting the strip soon and will get full info on hours, etc. from the logs. The family members are overloaded at this time, so updates will be as they can get together and make decisions.

Derswede

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