The state of our (dying) sport 2022

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

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Bill-Higdon

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Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
2,432
Location
Salem, Oregon, USA
Wife and I have donated at least 2 pickup truck loads of books to the county library in the past. For some reason they keep wanting to live at our house.
Local mini-Cabales has a book exchange table. When I stop and check out their firearm collection I always check the book table.

PS-- From what I hear the best wood for charcoal is the Willow tree.
That's what "Chemistry of powder & explosives" says
 

BJC

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Oct 7, 2013
Messages
15,593
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
I was in a building that blew up from an acetylene gas leak that filled the elevator shaft. Blew all the sides off the building up to 215' and twisted building steel. I don't remember it. I just woke up latter felling like someone hit me in the head with a sledge hammer.
People laugh at me, but I store all compressed combustible gasses outside of the hangar. I’ve seen / cleaned up the aftermath of some deadly explosions / pressure vessel ruptures.


BJC
 

Dan Thomas

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Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,334
Remember when cap guns used a roll of caps? The rolls came five at a time, I think, in a small box. Always wanted bigger bangs, and we found that laying a whole roll on the sidewalk and whacking it with Dad's hammer produced a nice big bang. The neighbors didn't react much in those days., Now, they'd be calling the cops to come and see who is shooting who.

1659922362985.png
 

imamac96

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
33
Location
North Texas
I forgot to say one other thing that I just remembered now that I'm back home from a gliding lesson ($400 for three flights makes my wallet cry).
We have one solid way to save our hobby: primary gliders.
I know a lot of people laugh at this, but there's a lot going for them.
Bob Hoover's article is something I couldn't agree with more.
The guy was spot on:
We don't have to cut everything from CNC, but a few standardized jigs would help get a reasonable club to the point where they should be able to build one per year (~300 hours of construction spread over 6 hours once a weekend for one year).
The EAA really needs to step up and start standardizing this.
They had the EAA biplane back in the day.
They need to sponsor someone to draw the plans for a simple, inexpensive primary glider that preferably meets 103.


The Sandlin gliders are very close to this, but the glider is only half of the solution.
Of course, somebody also needs to publish plans for some sort of standardized motorcycle-conversion-winch to get it high enough for once around the pattern.
Unfortunately, as the rules stand, the SG-38 is too heavy to be considered an ultralight, so this complicates things a bit.
It still has to get checked out by a DAR and get an annual (so that repairman has to stick with the club).
Realistically, the plane would likely be worn out and you'd build a new one the next year to replace it if everyone's paying their dues.
Forming a gliding club around about three Schulgleiters is probably the last affordable option in aviation besides going the ultralight route.

My $0.02,
Connor
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
8,595
Location
Rocky Mountains
Remember when cap guns used a roll of caps?
Remember scraping your thumb nail down an unrolled section to set them off in succession?
Nice black burn marks on the nail gave un-hidable evidence of what you had been up to.

The little round sticky ones that propelled plastic bullets would also set off powder from a field stripped 22.
Plastic barrels don't contain that kind of pressure well. 🤯
 

geraldmorrissey

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Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
112
The writing is on the wall for my free flight model airplane club. In 5-10 years most everyone will be dead. It's hard to get a kid to spend months on a model and lose it on the first flight. Definately a dying activity but one hell of a lot of fun.
 

RjUp

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Aug 4, 2022
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Home
View attachment 128284

A prize for anyone who can spot someone under 50 in the audience at Oshkosh 22. Also, the audience is almost exclusively men. White men.It's quite a telling photo.
Stop it already with the virtue signaling. "Oh there's an issue because only x type of people of x gender of x age are interested in this thing we are doing." The fact of the mater is those are the people this sport has attracted. There are no impediments baring non-whites. There are no impediments barring non-females. There are no impediments barring non->50 somethings. They just are not interested.
Please, do everybody in the sport a favor and get over it already and don't turn this into a virtue signaling woke-fest. The people you see in that room represent the majority cross section of the population that is interested in what we do. It is not dying just because super models and 20 somethings are not interested in it.
The better question is what are you doing about this perceived issue? What have you done to recruited non-whites, non-males, and non-50 somethings into homebuilt aviation? Mabye you have some good ideas to garner interest in our sport. Perhaps you share those instead of complaining to the us?
 

Appowner

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Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
126
Location
Michigan
From experience that I "heard about" ;), black powder wasn't such a good explosive. Now if one went to a theatrical supply place and got flash powder, there was a much more powerful result. Less than a thimbal of F.P. produced quite a powerful bang. Dennis
No it isn't. Burns too slow. But being a long time black powder hunter, I had the stuff on hand. Double F if I recall. But I proved my concept with it.

Game plan was to see about one or more M-80's lined up in the body tube. Detonation either via the contact one in the nose or by the flame ejection charge of the rocket motor. Hmmm! How many M-80's could be lined up in a body tube?

But Dad found out what I was doing and put an end to that. About two weeks later, when I could sit down again I turned my focus to other things.
 

robertl

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Joined
May 5, 2017
Messages
385
Location
Heath Springs, S.C. USA
From the post above “I went to my bedroom and hid under the bed.”

My uncle was a fire fighter. He told me the majority of people that die in house fires are found hiding under the bed.

Just saying. Another well known fact is that a majority of deaths occur in beds.

If we were allowed to make political comments here I would expound my political rant. OUTLAW BEDS - they are just too dangerous for the living!
That last sentence tells a lot, thank you. That's it, I'm not saying nutin' else!
Bob
 

cblink.007

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Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
944
Location
K2W6, Maryland, USA
GA never existed there in the first place like we know it here in the US. Germans love their bureaucracy, always have and in general, everything is forbidden unless specifically allowed. It's just their mindset. France is more "socialist" than Germany and GA is a lot healthier there.
It sure seemed that way when I was living out that way years ago. I was a member of the local aero club just outside Nuremberg, and I would venture to say that GA flying (at least doing a rental) out there was at least twice as expensive as it is here. User fees were ridiculous beyond belief in Germany, very minimal in France (I concur that is is way more GA friendly there), and non-existent in Switzerland (but heavily restrictive in other aspects of flying).

Speyer was not too bad. I flew in and out of there many times. Great museum on site (the Technikmuseum)!
 

RyanAllenDale

Banned
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Aug 7, 2022
Messages
3
Location
USA
I have been a professional motorcycle wrench and field engineer in ALL genres my whole working and financial life. As a bike wrench - I never offered less than 100% best of best - in service, yet what I call "the gurrly man syndrome" allowing anyone to be discontent about anything, including my own "proprietary methods, BETTER than the hole in the wall next door!" Which essentially led to libel (behind my back) and cancelled checks my employer never recovered.
End of story? Nope.
The Gurrly Man: Syndrome: [gurr as in bear...not girlie]: but if the shoe fits: wear it: This is what it is and has evolved! This mentality is prevalent (as ever) from Beltway to the Boardroom. No thought, pastime, idea, passion or profession is exempt of this sub par trait. Capitalism has adopted this trait to leverage grandiose profit margins!!
So. The Devil is in the details!!
The details? Are certainly no less than rampant dysfunction. To be the best: as in being "no less than 100% functional" no longer equates to being in-expendable. Opinions are as common as assholes: everyone has one: in trumps... if not in spades...
 
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ToddK

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Jan 13, 2016
Messages
777
Location
Shweaty Texas
Going out on a limb. I Spend a lot of time working in south Texas (and the rest of Texas for that matter). Lots of 1st an 2nd generation kids. Outside of the the big cities what I see reminds me more of my youth, and of my father then what I see elsewhere.

Men working with their hands and their heads. Husbands and wives, with children, living in modest homes. Kids who have to use their imagination when they get board. Go outside and play. People who have to "make due", fix their own cars" young men working with dad during the summer. Essentially they are making the kids that our parents made.

If we want aviation to hang around, we need to look at kids who are not growing up with everything they want, who had to learn how to use their imagination. And as I said before, its not going to be in big cities and urban areas where airports are getting bulldozed.

Its like missionary work, or the parable of the sower in Matthew 13. You cast a lot of seeds, but only some take root and grow.

I really like what is going on in Granbury. Take something like that, put it together with a club like the Toledo Buzzards, and we getting somewhere.

If we can just persuade a generation to keep their kids away from phones, ipads, and video games for a while.
 

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Bille Floyd

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Sep 26, 2019
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789
...

If we can just persuade a generation to keep their kids away from phones, ipads, and video games for a while.
It's called : "Kid Crack" !
It's an easy solution to make a child ShutUp ; but parents never
consider the consequences to their child's social well-being.

I asked a 12 year old neighbor, if he would like to learn
to fly an RC airplane one day ; he said : "I have that program
on my computer" ------- meaning No. I did teach his older sister
how to fly my Quad drone though ; she is in Space Force ROTC
now , but I didn't have anything to do with that.

Bille
 

geraldmorrissey

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Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
112
Our model airplane club sponsors build and fly days at a local middle school during the indoor season. Kids are dropped off and spend 4-5 hours with us building rubber powered balsa free flight models. We ask for a $5.00 donation to cover materials. Contrary to popular belief, kids can concentrate and see a project through completion. The girls seem to be better at it then boys. Better fliers too. Couple of issues, the kids seem to get little support from home. Many parents don't have the skills to teach kids how to work with their hands. Standing around a car with the hood open trying to figure out a problem is a thing of the past. Also we get 0% support from the school admin. In the 5 years or so I've been doing this we have never had a teacher or an administrator attend a session. A math teacher can't find an hour to attend? You would think they would be curious. The kids have a ball and the old farts do to. The kids progress through simple to more complex models and learn alot about airplanes and themselves. Phones are turned off and nobody seems to mind. Some parents work with their kids and learn some skills. I have great faith in the next generation but they will live a vastly different life then me.
 

Tiger Tim

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Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
4,847
Location
Thunder Bay
It's hard to get a kid to spend months on a model
Then don’t. There’s no reason to push a hobby of eighty year olds on a bunch of twelve year old kids. Get a thirty-five year old interested in a hobby that’s cheap, takes up little space, and is very social media friendly.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Messages
247
Our model airplane club sponsors build and fly days at a local middle school during the indoor season. Kids are dropped off and spend 4-5 hours with us building rubber powered balsa free flight models. We ask for a $5.00 donation to cover materials. Contrary to popular belief, kids can concentrate and see a project through completion. The girls seem to be better at it then boys. Better fliers too. Couple of issues, the kids seem to get little support from home. Many parents don't have the skills to teach kids how to work with their hands. Standing around a car with the hood open trying to figure out a problem is a thing of the past. Also we get 0% support from the school admin. In the 5 years or so I've been doing this we have never had a teacher or an administrator attend a session. A math teacher can't find an hour to attend? You would think they would be curious. The kids have a ball and the old farts do to. The kids progress through simple to more complex models and learn alot about airplanes and themselves. Phones are turned off and nobody seems to mind. Some parents work with their kids and learn some skills. I have great faith in the next generation but they will live a vastly different life then me.
Good job . I feel sorry for kids that grow up in an environment that lacks in parenting . If ya don't know anything that can be passed on , what would be the excuse for having children . Dumb butt seeds fall from dumb butt trees . I was extremely fortunate to come from a family that made sure that we learned mechanical trades . I was building Red Flyer wagons with lawn mower motors at around 8 years old . They were fast and I'm lucky to be alive . If I was to build anything that was unacceptable in craftsmanship , I was made to tear it apart and redo it . Now days kids cant scratch their butt without using the corner of their cellphone . I'm blown away with younger kids and adults that cannot drive ( and are frightened ) to drive a car or truck with a standard transmission . Ask one to point to N,S,E,or W . They are deprived of learning anything whatsoever that is not accessable on the cell phone . These kids that are mentioned above should be accelerated upwards into remote control aircraft and taught to add a servo that would allow them to compete in Cell Phone Bombing with lakes or ponds nearby . When they run out , remind them that mom and dad have phones for tomorrows session . Cell phones are a great tool but Monkey see Monkey do is killing our country , one kid at a time not to mention adults with less control than the kids . I'm done . :dead: 🐒
 
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