The movie "Red Tails"

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by BDD, Jan 27, 2012.

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  1. Jan 27, 2012 #1

    BDD

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    Probably not the right forum but what the heck. Has anyone watched the movie Red Tails? I would go see it before it is out of the theaters. It's probably the best dogfighter/WWII fighter movie yet and there probably won't be many more made. The flying scenes are phenomenal. I'm glad that someone like George Lucas appreciates the amazing technology of that era and wanted to tell the story of the Tuskegee Airmen. I met a member of this squadron a few years ago. He was in a local free flight model club which is something else from that time. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
     
  2. Jan 27, 2012 #2

    Nickathome

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    I'll pass. Frankly I'm tired of these rich white liberal directors and their apologetic guilt trip movies. Yes, the Red Tails suffered racism and didn't get the recognition they deserved. I get that. I don't need to be reminded of it, and I certainly don't feel guilty over something my generation had no part of......
     
  3. Jan 27, 2012 #3

    Wagy59

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    I have to agree with you..Im aware of those guys in WWII they did a hell of a job and didn't and didnt ask anyone to please make a movie about them for profit
    My smarter half asked me if I wanted to go see it and I said I wasnt sure, because on the previews on TV it showed a P-51 doing a completely aerodynamically impossible maneuver to get on the tail of a 109....It would of had to have had the performance of some of the UFO sightings on record
     
  4. Jan 27, 2012 #4

    Autodidact

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    Social commentary aspects aside, I thought it was a great vehicle to demonstrate how new technology can be used to portray air combat in a way that I've never really seen before. With CGI amazing things are possible and air combat is something that really does require this to be feasible. And it's also a great candidate for it because there are practically infinite possible story lines. The first real demonstration of this, in my experience, was the Empire State Building scene from King Kong.

    In Red Tails, the step-change in performance between the Me262 and P-51 was shown in a way that I could not really imagine. I also thought that the button-hook manuver in the P-40s was brilliant, the sort of thing that is hard to visualize from just a description.

    I think that there will be more of this type of movie; Red Tails was number two in box office it's opening weekend I heard, and nothing gets copied like success. I just hope that the emulation is done well.

    The "pretty boy" maneuver was pretty hokey, but other things were well done I thought. The movie wasn't perfect, but it showed what was possible, I thought.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  5. Jan 27, 2012 #5

    Wagy59

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    Sorry for spelling/typing..I suck at it
     
  6. Jan 28, 2012 #6

    orion

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    I'll pass too. With all the real P-51s flying who's owners would've loved doing a movie like this if for nothing else than getting their plane's maintenance covered, it seems a shame that folks go see what is essentially a high tech cartoon in which it is well demonstrated that the CGI artists have never been in an airplane nor have any familiarity with realistic aircraft operations or in-flight maneuvers, combat or otherwise. (I saw some extended previews - a joke at best).

    Couple this with the mindless predictable pablum that Hollywood writing seems to be these days, this movie does not seem to be worth the time to watch the previews, let alone the whole thing.
     
  7. Jan 28, 2012 #7

    davidb

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    Well, based on pure entertainment value for the general population, it's a pretty good movie. It was a lot easier to sit through than Memphis Belle. It's not a training video or a documentary but it is worth while to watch with a loved one as a conversation starter about the realities of flying and of the true history.
     
  8. Jan 28, 2012 #8

    topspeed100

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    Memphis Belle was the last big WW II flick with real airplanes...I said so 10 years ago. That looks entertaining.
     
  9. Jan 28, 2012 #9

    ultralajt

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    I agree!
    Just see the amazing roll rates of the fighters and wild&fast maeneuvers and swift direction changes... not authentic at all.
    But from entertainment view pretty amazing for common audience.

    Mitja
     
  10. Jan 28, 2012 #10

    RJW

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    Play a good combat flight sim like IL2 as if your life depended on it. Then play back the game as a movie. You will instantly realize how visually boring WW2 air combat was. Long minutes trying to get into a position of advantage followed by all of three seconds of actual shooting.

    Ground combat sequences aren’t much more interesting—a bunch of noise and confusion with nearly all of the combatants doing their best to get as close to the ground as possible. War correspondents have often complained of the lack of action on the battlefield.

    Even barroom brawls aren’t much to look at. I’ve had firsthand experience of a few of these. The longest fight lasts about 20 seconds before one of the opponents gives up or both are exhausted. Doesn’t look cool on film.

    The ridiculous treatment of these and most topics in Hollywood movies keeps me out of theaters. The childlike moralizing and nonstop clichés are insulting.

    Rob
     
  11. Jan 28, 2012 #11

    BDD

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    It's what's called a "movie". That's what they are. Maybe you are thinking of the "talkies". They've progressed a lot since then. "Battle of Britain" was great but it will never be done again and cannot. The effects, however, ruined it. They were more like something from a Buck Rogers serial with a model on a string blown apart by fireworks......with an obligatory superimposed explosion shown which doesn't track with the frame of reference at all. The tracer fire was also a failure, as I recall.

    If you need to show a hundred B-17's you will never find more than a few. If you need 80 flyable ME 109's you might find one, and the museum will never let you risk it. Planes like this shouldn't be risked in racing, aren't available in numbers for movies, and unless you are an air force who would want to pay for the enormous fuel, maintenance and logistics costs? Answer: Nobody.

    You seem to want a manual of operations or 30 minutes of flying to rendevous with the bombers, a slow climb to altitude, a 3 hour sortie, etc. That movie has never been made and will never be made. If it were made, no one would ever pay a dime to see it. Movies are a different thing completely. Memphis Belle was very good. Still a movie though with inaccuracies and exaggerations. The exaggerations though are essentially real. They show the types of things that really happened and maybe 1/1000th of what they might have felt like for the actual participants.
     
  12. Jan 28, 2012 #12

    BDD

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    That speaks volumes.........Also, your generation wouldn't even exist or would be doing the Nazi salute and eagerly turning in your neighbors for hiding someone who didn't want to be killed or for having a thought of their own if it weren't for that one and what the better (and liberal (look up the definition sometime)) part of it did. An exaggeration? Amazingly no, not at all. You apparently don't realize it at all but your generation is absolutely tied to that one and completely dependant on it. It's the same for the social issues.
     
  13. Jan 28, 2012 #13

    WonderousMountain

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    the greatest generation.jpg rhetoric isn't helpful. Hitler was racially single minded, the Japanese empire violently expanding, it's people loyal. This couldn't be allowed to continue. The idea that my generation is somehow too lazy, incompetent or ideologically inferior is possible, but insulting in the greatest extent. However, rising to the occasion as a liberal or conservative has little to do with making a movie.

    Major motion pictures seem to have little originality, and less historical accuracy recently. This trend is no good. I like watching movies with amazing CG, the concept that an high tech movie has to have a sub-optimum script, or that Hollywood can't find it's creative side is unacceptable. Maybe we should all boycott movies that aren't a testament to human intellect and vision.
     
  14. Jan 28, 2012 #14

    George Sychrovsky

    George Sychrovsky

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    If you want to see something different then Hollywood cookie cutter movies watch "The dark Blue World"
     
  15. Jan 28, 2012 #15

    BDD

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    Lazy, incompetent, ideologically inferior........never said any of these things. Maybe you could see the inter dependency of generations as somehow "karmic".
     
  16. Jan 28, 2012 #16

    BDD

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    Looks good.Too bad they have to use Spanish 109's that look like Spitfires from the front. You probably have to hunt for the movie to see it and I don't speak Czechoslovakian. Most of the speaking parts though are probably in English.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012
  17. Jan 29, 2012 #17

    autoreply

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    At the risk of starting a transatlantic war (where's the NATO when you need it ;)), many of the European movies don't insult your intelligence and don't use the first minute of the movie to point out who's the bad guy, who's the good guy and what the morale of the movie is, like seems mandatory in Hollywood. Das Boot is named by many as the best war movie ever made and I fully agree. If you've never seen it, go watch it :)

    I did have a look at the trailers of "Red tails". Not going to watch it in the cinema's either. I would be willing to go, just for the aerial shots (I did for Avatar, which has truly mesmerizing flying scenes, especially in 3D), but unfortunately, "Red Tails" is all too shiny and far from realism.
     
  18. Jan 29, 2012 #18

    orion

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    Haven't heard of Dark Blue World but looks promising. But if anyone's looking for a really good flying movie where the planes are the real stars, go find just about any air movie produced by Howard Hughes. OK, the stories aren't the greatest movie fare but the flying and real airplanes are. Some great historical shots. Strategic Air Command for instance has some great footage of B-36s. Haven't seen too many shots of those elsewhere.
     
  19. Jan 29, 2012 #19

    BDD

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    The zeppelin crash in Hell's Angels is amazing. It's a model but looks very realistic from what I remember. It first appears ominously cruising through some clouds as did the Hindenburg in the later "Hindenburg" movie (that's no doubt where they got the idea). Later it's shot down and has a fiery crash. Amazing special effects for the time. Unfortunately a bomber and some other planes crashed during the fiming. Movie Review - Hell's Angels - THE SCREEN - NYTimes.com

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCiEwMUHMsE

    Because of the subject matter, lack of planes, and costs, I don't think we'll ever see many really good aviation films with a lot of aerial shots from now on. Even with CGI it's a less popular topic today. Similarly, fighter simulation software is also not very popular. Sturmovic and it's later developments to "1946" are supposed to include an excellent flight model for each plane and a good visual environment but they are not as popular as other types of simulations and games. It's a sign of the times.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
  20. Jan 29, 2012 #20

    topspeed100

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    I saw a rarity the other day a finnish aviation movie from 1934.."OUR BOYS IN THE AIR"...Blackburn Ripon and Gloster Gamecocks and some finnish biplanes ( Sääski ) and Junkers planes of the time.
     

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