The most profitable option for a new propulsion system? (DEKAIR)

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by DangerZone, Aug 17, 2019.

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  1. Aug 17, 2019 #1

    DangerZone

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    Elon Musk said in an interview that humanity has achieved the best it can with reaction engines, that something else is needed for further space travel. He said there is need for a revolutionary propulsion system which would allow people to reach beyond Mars. So this is a way to analyze all options how an inventor could make such a new propulsion system most profitable.

    Hypothetically, let's asume there is such a propulsion system which we could call a Dynamic Electro-kinetic Accelerator and Impulse Reactor (short DEKAIR). The input is electricity, the output is motion, it is a closed system and does not need fluids like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive or most other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrokinetic_phenomena.

    This invention would certainy affect air, space and maritime transportation, and possibly leave some companies out of their business. This risk has to be considered when trying to either sell the idea or develop it with some existing companies in air and space transport, as well as military companies producing submarines, destroyers and aircraft carriers.

    Let's first describe the propulsion system benefits. In its initial stage in atmospheric conditions, it shows over twenty times more efficiency than any actual rotary electric motor using reaction for propulsion. A 100kg DEKAIR can provide a constant 1.1G to 1.6G acceleration without heating issues because it has no internal physical friction, yet does heat up over time (hence the 1.6G limitation).

    Second, there are problems in making the DEKAIR profitable. If disclosed to the public, it could soon be made/copied in China, Russia and other parts of the world where intellectual property is a problem. Even in the West, this could affect most gas turbine and rocket propulsion companies (aircraft, spacecraft, ships and submarines) so it may be wise to keep a low profile with this propulsion system.

    I asked some engineers, and got interesting thoughts.

    One engineer suggested this invention be better kept secret. He said the best would be to contact a good patent attorney who would offer the rights to aircraft engine companies like GE, RR and PW because it would impact their economy. He is sure that they would rather pay money so that this invention DOES NOT get produced, giving them time to adjust their market and get an edge on the future competition.

    Another engineer said that Elon Musk would certainly be interested, but the payment would still be a problem because large companies often see lawsuits as a cheaper option than paying money to the inventor that was agreed in a contract. Asuring payment is the biggest problem. A DEKAIR could be used for military supremacy so there is risk the inventor could be left with nothing if a government seizes it.

    The DEKAIR does not need air (as aircraft do) or water ducts (as submarines do) for propulsion and has no heat signature because it can be installed internally close to or within the CG. Hence the person or institution which would buy the rights for this invention would certainly be under national security supervision of any country in the world. If the inventor is from the EU, how could this be sold in the US?

    In other words, this is just a mental exercise trying to find some answers. Or, if questions are preferred:

    "What would you do if you would be approached by an inventor asking how to make an invention most profitable if it has a technological edge over other aircraft and spacecraft propulsion systems?"

    "What would you do if you were the inventor, what options would you find to make the DEKAIR most profitable and leave yourself some room for further improvement of this propulsion system?"
     
  2. Aug 17, 2019 #2

    BJC

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    First, I would hire Moller’s advertising agency. Then I would buy a steak dinner for the editor of Popular Science magazine. Then I would start accepting deposits for future delivery options.

    Then I would go to confession.


    BJC
     
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  3. Aug 17, 2019 #3

    Speedboat100

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    I am in a similar situation with my innovation with the wind turbine that I have innovated a system that makes a known new wind turbine type tick. It is not a propeller.

    I am interested to hear also what the options are.

    I have currently broken 2 ( unoffiacially ) world records...and preparing a third bigger turbine to give data of the real output with a generator in a large enough scale ( Re number related issue ).
     
  4. Aug 17, 2019 #4

    Hot Wings

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    This seems analogous to what would happen if we ever crack the cold fusion nut.

    Baring some kind of government intervention to require a license, granted to those that already have the power/money and making individual use a crime, I don't see much way to keep control of the IP and make a huge profit.

    Might as well do the research using as much public grant money as possible and plan on making the results public domain?

    The only people to make any money will be the "just about to go public" Moller/Synergy/Icon/Raptor types BJC mentioned.
     
  5. Aug 17, 2019 #5

    TFF

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    Go public and cash out; then make it free. Use to escape the mob.
     
  6. Aug 17, 2019 #6

    Hephaestus

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    Sell it to uber is the clear answer lol
     
  7. Aug 17, 2019 #7

    Sockmonkey

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    Anything that operates independently in space, needs reaction mass.
    A lot of of it.
    The end.
    It's one of those hard laws of the universe you aren't going to wiggle out of.

    Photon drives exist, which are technically not expelling mass, but it costs you three hundred megawatts per newton of thrust because relativity still demands it's due.
     
  8. Aug 17, 2019 #8

    12notes

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    To minimize theft/lawsuits/etc and maximize production, license it at a reasonable rate to every company equally, last one to market loses. Have a declining rate as production increases, e.g. make 10 @ 5% royalty, 100 @ 2%, 1000 @ 0.5%, etc. Gives them an incentive to make more, reduces the incentive to sue/steal. It won't maximize immediate revenue like and exclusive deal, but might be the most profitable long term.

    EDIT: Also, make something that actually can exist. That helps a lot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  9. Aug 17, 2019 #9

    pictsidhe

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    Don't sully this thread with actual physics!

    People want to talk about something that is really easy and cheap to make, works at 100% efficiency while weighing very little. Facts have no place in this thread.
     
  10. Aug 17, 2019 #10

    litespeed

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    I blame Isaac Newton.

    IF he did not invent that gravity and those other pesky laws of physics.....................

    NO actually it was the apples fault.

    Now if someone never drew a circle...........the world would be flat..

    The universe does not care what we think or believe
     
  11. Aug 18, 2019 #11

    proppastie

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    those of you that have this leap forward....if the majority of history is to be believed.....do not count on getting rich. Do it for the love of discovery ....do it for yourself. However should you still wish to carry on I think the best course is to,.... publish which will eliminate your or any others right to a patent....then build a factory and produce the product for a price that others can not duplicate, either by secret proprietary process or by automation.
     
  12. Aug 18, 2019 #12

    blane.c

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  13. Aug 18, 2019 #13

    pwood66889

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    "What would you do if you would be approached by an inventor asking how to make an invention most profitable if it has a technological edge over other aircraft and spacecraft propulsion systems?"
    Tell `em to forget it! By trying to be "most profitable," one is almost guaranteed to get picked off!

    "What would you do if you were the inventor, what options would you find to make the DEKAIR most profitable and leave yourself some room for further improvement of this propulsion system?"
    Consider what was said above - license the product, getting less money each the more they sell. And license at least two outlets. Then innovate to beat the band, so that you stay ahead of the licensees.

    Know your options - patents have to not be based on "past art." And they are public in that the description is filed with it. But you can successfully sue in countries where attention is paid to "The Law." Yet, if that country Really Wants It, they may "Make you an offer you can't refuse."

    Trade secrets only last if they can be kept secret. Can't do that if you sell it. Unless, like the wands in Harry Potter, they stop working when broken into.
     
  14. Aug 18, 2019 #14

    Speedboat100

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    That is the problem .....as the competitors are already in the field with massive factories.
     
  15. Aug 18, 2019 #15

    Speedboat100

    Speedboat100

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    Once you get into space you really do need very little energy to go forward.
     
  16. Aug 18, 2019 #16

    proppastie

    proppastie

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    Often the large companies have an overhead structure and management deficit that allow the smaller company to produce and sell for less.
     
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  17. Aug 18, 2019 #17

    Sockmonkey

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    I know, and I feel dirty being the nay-sayer.
     
  18. Aug 18, 2019 #18

    BJC

    BJC

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    Well I know a guy who knew a guy, whose friend, back during the early 1970’s OPEC oil embargo, invented a carburetor that easily bolted onto any V8 and got 85 mpg. He tried to sell it to a major auto manufacturer but they invited a major petroleum company to join in the negotiations. In the middle of negotiations, both he and the design disappeared.


    BJC
     
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  19. Aug 18, 2019 #19

    blane.c

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  20. Aug 18, 2019 #20

    Speedboat100

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    I know at least that the diesel cars can be made as clean if not cleaner than gasoline cars...with some kinda special katalysator/muffler.
     
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