The Millholland Designs Legal Eagle Ultralight, Legal Eagle XL and Double Eagle

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by Rockiedog2, Jan 28, 2019.

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  1. Jan 29, 2019 #21

    Rockiedog2

    Rockiedog2

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    Fritz there is a short wing LEU down in TX that 2 old shade tree engineer brothers built up with a full Vdub. Steel tail instead of AL and some beefing up here and there. Last I saw that plane it had 600+ hours on it. Community type plane...everybody flew it. They loved it. Then somebody totaled it and they were gonna abandon it but one of them started fixing it up. Dunno if it ever got goin again or not. Frank oughta know. If you run the power/weight on a basic four cylinder Vdub LEU vs a 45 Horse Casler(or Verner) the 4 cylinder doesn't look so good and it's gotta be registered but you're talking an 1835
     
  2. Jan 29, 2019 #22

    Propman

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    Yea Joe, it was rebuilt and is flyin now with one of my props, still has a full VW on it
     
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  3. Jan 29, 2019 #23

    Propman

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    Les did a pull test with the 3V and got 205Lbs @ 2350 rpm. now this is with what we consider a cruise prop. should be able to get 10-15lbs more with a climb prop. Now a pull test will only give you that static thrust and with my props it tends to be better once there is forward motion, getting the prop out of a stalled condition.
     
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  4. Jan 29, 2019 #24

    Rockiedog2

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    205 is the best I got outa my 45 Casler with the best climb prop you made us back when we were figuring it all out
     
  5. Jan 29, 2019 #25

    Rockiedog2

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    They'll just keep patchin it up
    It'll outlive all of us


    How much strip you got at your place?
     
  6. Jan 29, 2019 #26

    lr27

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    Maybe I'm not supposed to ask this, but I kind of wonder about the actual empty weights of customer built LE's and LE XL's. OTOH, people aren't calibrated for how well they avoid adding weight to their aircraft.
     
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  7. Jan 30, 2019 #27

    Rockiedog2

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    I did mine in 6 months spare time work while working and lotsa family activities. That's not typical; most guys take 3 years or so. It's a simple and fast build for the motivated and experienced builder but there are lotsa beginners building Eagles so they're understandably pretty slow.
     
  8. Jan 30, 2019 #28

    Rockiedog2

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    Leonard's prototype weighed 241. He's experienced at weight control and obviously wanted it not only legal but also wanted it to perform...he knew early on that he was gonna sell plans (I talked to him Christmas and plans sales have increased exponentially. he's delighted). Mine weighed exactly 253; no BS. I've gradually worked on it reducing the weight and last weighin was 238.5. Neither I nor Leonard have heard of one that's lighter or even close.
    Like you said, most don't have weight as their priority. In my experience, it doesn't come natural it's a learned "art" and some never do get it. Most are concerned with making it "nice"; even plush. Nice is heavy. Look at Leonard's original LEU...if he needed to run a line to the motor he went straight thru the windshield not wandering around all over creation and tying off every few inches. And he made huge chain saw looking holes in the w/s...not pretty but he didn't care. It was light. And all over the plane. One of the things that is so common is the full 1/4" full plywood floorboards. And guys never give a thought to how unneeded and heavy that is, not a thought. All one needs is 1/8" ply heel pads about 6"x8" or even less. Having looked at many inprogress projects it's obvious it's gonna weigh upwards of 300 and the builder is delighted with how nice it all is. No clue. LOL.
    Most that I know of weigh 265-300. That's the short wing; the XL is more difficult to come in under 254 but it can be done. Leonard did it. Few others have tho; if any. It's not the design; it's the builders. They both can be built legal.
     
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  9. Jan 30, 2019 #29

    Rockiedog2

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    Blane C. you asked several days ago in another thread about the vgs. I went back and dug thru all my old test data and verified that after adding the vgs the stall speed decreased 9%. I tried several different types, the first set was homemade "paired" AL vgs. They had about the same effect on the stall but there was measurable drag at cruise. So made up some homemade single vane ones and they were ok but less stall reduction. Installed a set of Stolspeed vgs and they still on it. -9% stall and no measurable drag at cruise. All were placed same % chord, 8% IIRC, after trial and error for best placement. A certain manufacturer saw the paired set and asked if ok they give em a try and of course go ahead; I found em on the net and copied them myself. Not long after a set of nice professional AL vgs arrived and a note to try em out so I did. Same stall speed reduction and also same measurable drag at cruise.
    Unexpectedly, the most obvious benefit was low speed handling. My plane was just a touch unstable in roll when slow especially right after min speed liftoff. That disappeared; solid as a rock.
     
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  10. Jan 30, 2019 #30

    blane.c

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    Increased aileron control at low speed is a nice thing to have.
     
  11. Jan 30, 2019 #31

    Propman

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    I tell myself it's 1/4 mile, sounds longer than 1300ft. It would always keep my attention in the RV6. Easy in the Rans, figuring the Legal Eagle will be easy too
     
  12. Jan 31, 2019 #32

    lr27

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    Rockiedog2:
    Thanks for that info about the weight. Pretty much what I was expecting.
     
  13. Jan 31, 2019 #33

    Victor Bravo

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    1300 feet? I'm pretty sure Rockiedog used to operate 727's in that much space...
     
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  14. Jan 31, 2019 #34

    lr27

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  15. Jan 31, 2019 #35

    Rockiedog2

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    found it on sky vector
    1075 feet.
    We had a 65 horse ragwing no electric 8A that could have operated out of there solo for sure. it was light. Course getting out is the thing. it's plenty long for landing with the right man at the stick and no big tailwinds. The Luscombe was a fine little plane especially the ragwing no electrics. Weight as usual. A ragwing no electric with an 0-200 would be nice. The Luscombe had an undeserved bad rep for being hard to handle on the runway. Not so atall. The tailwheel steering on ours was direct, no springs and it did what it was told when it was told and course that was too much for some to handle so they came back and said it was mean. BS.
    Wonder how skittish his neighbors were. Looks like he could have gone between the houses and gotten the full length. My neighbors would have a nervous breakdown.
    The Eagles don't need much runway if it's light and the PIC proficient. I got a 250' strip here that I can operate mine out of for fun but it's not a casual operation. Got a 500 that's plenty for the plane.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  16. Jan 31, 2019 #36

    blane.c

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    A lot of whether a runway is long enough or not is to do about obstructions at the ends. 250 ft runway followed by a few acres of clover is enough for quite a few planes, but 250 ft followed by a row of Georgia pines is another matter entirely.
     
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  17. Jan 31, 2019 #37

    Rockiedog2

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    you got that right. My 250 is clear on both ends so if overshoot you just run off down the side of the ridge. A little rough but that's it. If it had trees at the rollout end...ain't no way I'd try to land there.
     
  18. Jan 31, 2019 #38

    Pops

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    Where I use to live on the family farm, my cousin had a ridge about 1 mile away on their farm ( highest ridge for about 50 miles ) One time a bi-plane landed there when they were lost and very low on fuel with about a 200' ceiling. They thought they were in PA not WV. So I thought, if they can land there so I can. So I walked it and decided my approach. It is 900' , one way in and one way out. Fly in over a hollow (Don't get below runway elevation). Put it down in the first few feet and for stopping the last 300' was up a hill with a very large barn on top of the hill, no way for a go around. Started my take-off run up the hill and had enough width to do a high speed 180 and down the hill and get off before the swag in the level part of the remaining 600'. Cut some white oaks for post and built a tee hanger and used the field 2 years before the owner wanted to raise corn. Used the field with my Falconar F-12. Tee hanger is still standing, used to store hay. That was 1981 and 1982.
     
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  19. Jan 31, 2019 #39

    blane.c

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    I like the little Verner engine it looks like a hoot! I noticed it has a 600hr TBO and I am wondering what the estimated cost of overhaul is for the little engine? In one respect 600hrs is a lot of time, in another respect you have a high midtime engine in 400hrs.
     
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  20. Jan 31, 2019 #40

    lr27

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    One of the houses was built after the runway. The other one has a hill behind it, so you wouldn't want to take off in that direction anyway.
     

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