# The Lightest Electric Starter for Rotax 2 strokes - M5 Aviation Products

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#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I designed the original M4 Starter back in 1993, quite a few are still operating just fine but I do provide a repair service for them as well as manufacturing the new M5 Starter which is a natural progression from the M4, using modern manufacturing techniques and bearings etc. This starter weighs just 6lbs 12oz (3.1Kg) and comes with a full 2 year warranty

#### Armilite

##### Well-Known Member
Do you know of any New Starters that Works on the Old Skidoo/Rotax Singles? 250 Type 247, 292, 299/300, 318/320, 335/340?

#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Mmm! Not really, I'm afraid (well I don't know, that is). Looks like it might have been a starter from a small industrial engine perhaps?

##### Well-Known Member
Would this be an upgrade for a 503 without a gearbox provision and currently having a ring gear? If so, what kind of weight savings?

#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Hi, total weight is 6lbs 12oz. Not sure what the ring gear weighs (but I have one somewhere!). This is lighter than the Rotax starter. Whether it's an upgrade is a bit subjective I guess but it does mean effortless starting with an excess of revs to provide max voltage from the magneto for CDI ignition.

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#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
The Polini Thor 202 , weighs 37-Lb, with a liquid cooled 33-Hp , but
does Not have E-start ; i wonder what starter could be a good fit
for this engine ?

Bille

#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Not the M5 sadly! Maybe we should look at the Polini as a possible new customer; there are plenty of them about...

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
...
Maybe we should look at the Polini as a possible new customer; there are plenty of them about...
That would be Great ; i plan to own the Thor 202, in the near future !!
My idea, was to remove the pull-start, and rob an E-starter, from
a scooter, (or something similar).

Bille

#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
It wouldn't be too difficult to design one but I need to get hold of an engine!

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
It wouldn't be too difficult to design one but I need to get hold of an engine!
Closest city/country, where you live ?

Bille

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#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Closest city/country, where you live ?

Bille
I'm in the UK, right down west in sunny Cornwall (where your illustrious POTUS was staying last week )

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
(where your illustrious POTUS was staying last week )
By "illustrious" you mean "current?" We haven't had an illustrious one for quite some time.

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
I'm in the UK,
...
Still might be able to work something out ; when i get
my engine ! I definitely want an E-start ; way more than
a pull starter.

Bille

#### Armilite

##### Well-Known Member
That would be Great ; i plan to own the Thor 202, in the near future !!
My idea, was to remove the pull-start, and rob an E-starter, from
a scooter, (or something similar).

Bille
===========================

What do you see in the Polini Thor 202 that makes it so great?

Polini Thor 202. $3,175.00 Power [email protected]! Compression Ratio: 11.5 An exclusive, reliable and long-lasting product, to grant longer life to the engine and increasing the TBO (time between overhaul) up to 400 hours. Most Polini 250 DS don't last 250hrs to 300hrs turning those high rpm on Trikes! To Live a Longer Life you will want to detune it to max 6500rpm, which will also drop it's hp made. The New Polini 303 is 38hp at 8000rpm and has an Electric Start option, but does cost more. The 303 real displacement is 281.3cc with 76mm bore and 62mm stroke and also uses a 28mm Carb. 281cc making [email protected], at 6500rpm would be approximately 31hp! At 6750rpm approximately 32hp! The real displacement of the 202 is 205.3cc with 66mm Bore and 60mm Stroke! The new Thor 202 is available with Dell’Orto carburetor. VHST 28mm Dell’Orto carburetor. Thor 202 is equipped with the latest version of the well-known Flash starter, a system that grants an easy engine starter. <============================> A Reed fed Engine will outperform a Piston Port Engine at higher 6500+rpm used! <=======================> Comparison: A much Cheaper Rotax 277UL 268.8cc, 11.8cr, 36mm Carb is rated [email protected] with a Rotax Header/Muffler, probably makes [email protected]. 268.8cc/7cc = 38.4hp is possible with a Good Tuned Pipe. Used 277UL's with a Gear Drive can be bought for$250 to $600. A New 2.58 Ratio B Gear Drive is$835. A Rebuild kit for a 277UL was $140 to$160 on eBay. Crank Bearings go for $8.50 to$30 each on eBay. So if you Shop around a Complete Rebuild is less than $200. Used Engine with Gear Drive$250
Rebuild $200 Tuned Pipe about$50 if you can make your own, $400 to$600 if you have one Custom made!
$250 +$200 + $600 =$1,050.

<========================>

JLO Snowmobile Engines have (4) Bolt Holes around the PTO to attach an ACE Belt Drive $669 shipped to the USA. I bought a basket case JLO L-372 Electric Start for$75 off eBay. I bought a NOS L-380 High Compression Head & NOS Cylinder, and all Gaskets & Seals & Rings & Bearings, etc., and I have less than $350 in it so far. I still need to buy a Carb/EFI & Electric Starter for it. I bought a New 38mm Mikuni Flat Side for my 277UL for$135 and a NOS JLO Starter is around $80-$90. So even $350 +$135 + $90 =$575 + Ace $669 =$1,244 + $600 =$1,844. A JLO L-372 is (80mm x 74mm) 372.1cc/7cc= 53.1hp is possible. JLO & SACHS each made about 14 different Singles alone, 100cc to 395cc used on everything from Snowmobiles, Weed Wackers, Water Pumps, Generators, Service Carts, 6x6 ATV's, Welders, Winches, Post Hole Diggers, etc., sold all over the World! JLO is also called ILO. JLO/Rockwell was owned by Rockwell International here in the USA at one time. I have seen even New JLO L-152 Engines turn up on eBay (Greece) for Tillers/Weed Wackers. On most JLO's you can pull the Cast Iron Sleeve and you Gain a minimum +5mm and Nikisil the Bore to Save Weight and Gain CC. So even a JLO L-152 (59mm x 54mm) 147.6cc becomes a minimum (64mm x 54mm) 173.7cc and you can usually go bigger if you can find a Piston. A (76mm x 59mm) 245.0cc/7cc= 35hp. A (72mm x 59mm) 219.9cc/7cc= 31.4hp. That New JLO L-152 was $455 usd on eBay Greece! #### Attachments • 44.4 KB Views: 0 • 37.5 KB Views: 0 • 36.6 KB Views: 2 • 96.6 KB Views: 1 • 67.8 KB Views: 1 • 55.1 KB Views: 1 #### Bille Floyd ##### Well-Known Member =========================== What do you see in the Polini Thor 202 that makes it so great? Polini Thor 202.$3,175.00
Power [email protected]!
Compression Ratio: 11.5
...

Used 277UL's with a Gear Drive can be bought for $250 to$600. .
..

<========================>

les,
Are you comparing, a 277UL, 26-Hp , air-cooled engine, that weighs 65-Lb, against
the 33-Hp , 202, liquid cooled engine, that weighs 37-Lb ; for use on a powered
glider ultralight, whose mission is soaring in light air, (not motoring around) ?

Just the weight savings alone , is worth the difference in price ; and
i'm willing to save-Up for the 202. It's foot launch ; till i get the money.

Bille

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#### bebedriver

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
These small paramotor based cranks do seem to have a short life span here in the UK (so I'm told!)

#### Bille Floyd

##### Well-Known Member
These small paramotor based cranks do seem to have a short life span here in the UK (so I'm told!)
Name an engine, with a larger desirable crank, in the 26 to 30-hp
range, that is under 40-Lb ; and i'll buy it ?
For me, and my mission ; weight is my biggest enemy .

I expect to use my engine ; under :20-min, for each 3-hour flight ; and
that includes warmUp, and cool-down for the total run-time.

Bille

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