Tandem-wing LSA/microlight concept and poll

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Which tandem-wing configuration would interest you the most (pick one in each of four categories).

  • A1 - High wing forward, low wing aft (Flying Flea) OR

    Votes: 18 36.7%
  • A2 - Low wing forward, high wing aft (Quickie);

    Votes: 27 55.1%
  • B1 - Two-axis controls (no rudder pedals like an Ercoupe) OR

    Votes: 9 18.4%
  • B2 - Three-axis controls (with rudder pedals like a Cessna);

    Votes: 35 71.4%
  • C1 - Conventional (taildragger) gear OR

    Votes: 23 46.9%
  • C2 - Tricycle (nosewheel) gear;

    Votes: 21 42.9%
  • D1 - Tractor engine (engine and propeller at front) OR

    Votes: 33 67.3%
  • D2 - Pusher engine (engine and propeller at rear);

    Votes: 13 26.5%

  • Total voters
    49

cluttonfred

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Taking Sockmonkey's comment to its logical conclusion leads to having little if any fuselage aft of the rear wing and usually twin rudders. What do folks think of that approach for the type of LSA/microlight aircraft discussed in this thread and poll?

mauboussin hemiptere les ailes 1936-06-18.jpg f-pyil final version.jpg 13013L.jpg delanne 20-t.jpg

Making the fuselage stiffer in torsion is less of a penalty in a tandem as the fuselage itself can be significantly shorter as you don't need it to be the lever arm for an elevator.
 

Bigshu

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Taking Sockmonkey's comment to its logical conclusion leads to having little if any fuselage aft of the rear wing and usually twin rudders. What do folks think of that approach for the type of LSA/microlight aircraft discussed in this thread and poll?

View attachment 110111 View attachment 110112 View attachment 110113 View attachment 110114
I think the Delanne 20 is pretty nice looking, but I'd like better forward visibility. The Mauboussin has the low front wing, but the empennage is clunky, and of course neither is a tri gear pusher! Oh well...
 

Tiger Tim

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Seems to me the tandem advantage could be putting the occupants farther away from wings and struts while still keeping them close to the CG which could be used to advantage in easier cockpit entry and exit.

A well designed accessible tandem probably won’t be attractive to any of us who enjoy suffering through the current and traditional state of aviation but could perhaps help tip an outsider into flying.
 
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cluttonfred

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Bill, I did some fishing around on French sites and could not find anything. Are you sure that was the name or do you have any other info?

There was a French airplane like the I believe it was the Jidney J13 flash, reason why the Qucikie was never patented from what I remember.
 

cluttonfred

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I don't think that's necessarily the case. This Croses CLP, a composite microlight developed by the son of Emilien Croses, is quite attractive. Give it rakish Rutan-style rudder and wingtips and it would look very modern. With the wings both well away from the large cockpit doors it does underscore your point about access and, to a degree, visibility.

clp001.jpg clp002.jpg clp003.jpg

A well designed accessible tandem probably won’t be attractive to any of us who enjoy suffering through the current and traditional state of aviation but could perhaps help tip an outsider into flying.
 
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Bill-Higdon

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Bill, I did some fishing around on French sites and could not find anything. Are you sure that was the name or do you have any other info?
Mathew It was in a 1960's Air Progress Home built magazine. If we can find someone with a stash of them we my find out more, or the Burt Rutan interview where he talked about Quickie Aircraft trying to patent the design.
 

Vigilant1

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I don't think that's necessarily the case. This Croses CLP, a composite microlight developed by the son of Emilien Croses, is quite attractive. Give it rakish Rutan-style rudder and wingtips and it would look very modern. With the wings both well away from the large cockpit doors it does underscore your point about access and, to a degree, visibility.

View attachment 110188 View attachment 110187 View attachment 110186
Are those two struts/cabanes the only connection between the front wing and the fuselage? I assume it works, but I expected to see some sort of triangulated member to take the wing's drag loads and any pitching moment to the fuselage. I guess those two struts do all that.
 
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BJC

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Mathew It was in a 1960's Air Progress Home built magazine. If we can find someone with a stash of them we my find out more, or the Burt Rutan interview where he talked about Quickie Aircraft trying to patent the design.
Q: Why haven’t you patented the Quickie design?

Rutan: Planes like this have been around for a long time — Jack Cox sent me a copy of Popular Mechanics from 1913. There I read about a tandem wing arrangement by an inventor named Drzewiecki, though I hadn’t heard of it when I designed the VariEze.

More important, I think patents are counterproductive; they tend to stand in the way of progress. I feel complimented if people copy my designs. To show what I mean, let me point out that Wilbur and Orville Wright had a lot of fun developing their Kitty Hawk biplane, but once they started moving from the flying arena to the courts, in fighting Glenn Curtiss and others, they made very little progress. They hardly did anything new beyond 1906; they simply failed to keep up with the state of the art.
From www.quickheads.com


BJC
 

Bigshu

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Mathew It was in a 1960's Air Progress Home built magazine. If we can find someone with a stash of them we my find out more, or the Burt Rutan interview where he talked about Quickie Aircraft trying to patent the design.
I'm always on the lookout for old Air Progress magazines with aircraft I'm interested in, so i have quite a few if you can narrow down the issue.
 

Bigshu

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Wasn't the Thompson Boxmoth super light weight?
 
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mcrae0104

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cluttonfred

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The CLP wing is supported at the main spar by the two cantilever struts. A single large pushrod to the rear spar (or where the rear spar would be) controls the angle of attack of the wing. Remember that this is a slightly reflexed airfoil with the pivot points a little ahead of the CoP so the wing will naturally seek a stable angle of attack for its present speed.

No ailerons on the CLP as far as I know, I think those are Cosandey flaps controlled by two levers used together to adjust the fuselage angle as pitch trim in flight or differentially to dial in some roll for crosswind operations. I don’t like them, at that point you may as well have ailerons so why bother?
 

Tiger Tim

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This Croses CLP... is quite attractive.
That’s just about what I was imagining except with the front wing low. Basically an accessible airplane for the current non-pilot crowd, or in other words taking the core concept of the Raptor in a very realistic and attainable direction (to beat airline travel without breaking the bank). That’s where I think a modern tandem could really solve a problem and find a niche.
 

Martin R.

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Are those two struts/cabanes the only connection between the front wing and the fuselage? I assume it works, but I expected to see some sort of triangulated member to take the wing's drag loads and any pitching moment to the fuselage. I guess those two struts do all that.
The Croses CPL is a pure Flying Flea. And on Flying Fleas pitch-control takes place in changing the AOA of the front wing. That’s why the front wing is rotatable suspended on those two struts and controlled by the pilot via the stick that I marked on the below photo.
hba01.jpg
An interesting detail: If I remember correctly, the fuselage of the above Croses CPL prototype was build with the “stich and glue” method.

Here some links:
Pou-Guide - L'AVENTURE CROSES CONTINUE!

… and here another “plastic”-Flea, the HM-1100 Cordouan:
The planes - Mignet Aviation

By the way: the APEV also uses revolving front wings. Not for pitch-control (which they steer with normal elevators) but for roll-control without ailerons:
hba02.jpg
www.pouchel.com The website of the APEV
 
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