# Sun n Fun 2021

### Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Coffee you say? ... I'm in!!!!

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I’ll be having coffee at the OX5 clubhouse around 0800 tomorrow (Wednesday). Stop by.

BJC

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
Dang, I’m missing it but this room brew is pretty good. I’ll be running around out there in a bit.

#### davidb

##### Well-Known Member
I have a request for anyone going to SnF.
Did Kolb show up?
if they did can you find out when (if?) they are going to resume kit production?
If kit production is to resume what is the lead time to get a Firefly.
Thanks!
Edit: Nevermind, got my answer here

I’m not going to wait 2 years on a kit. Kolb can’t get people to work. It’s a common problem. I was at the local “Metals Superstore“ and they were complaining about their guys not coming back. Seems that they are making as much or more from unemployment benefits.
They are here but they weren’t trying to drum up business. 6-7 months before they accept new orders and two years to deliver after that so you are at least two and half years from getting a kit. Also said they have no idea of pricing since they don’t know what material costs will be that far out.

#### davidb

##### Well-Known Member
I found the STOL “competition” enjoyable. I believe they are doing it every evening at 6pm at the ultralight grass strip. You can get up close to the takeoff and landing zone.

BJC

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
I’ll be having coffee at the OX5 clubhouse around 0800 tomorrow (Wednesday). Stop by.

BJC
I'm tentatively scheduled to arrive there on Thursday ...

#### Kyle Boatright

##### Well-Known Member
I'm bagging it for this year. Looks like the weather tomorrow precludes flying, and the weather through Sunday is dodgy. My home field is closed (preliminary repaving work) from 7P-7A, so I've lost a lot of flexibility on my ability to make it home. Certainly wouldn't be viable after the show on Saturday, for instance.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I’m not going to wait 2 years on a kit. Kolb can’t get people to work. It’s a common problem. I was at the local “Metals Superstore“ and they were complaining about their guys not coming back. Seems that they are making as much or more from unemployment benefits.
Would you be running back to a $15/hr job if unemployment and/or some pandemic bailout deal was paying you that much or more to stay home? I'm guessing that the Kolb factory can arrange their work stations six feet apart, have lots of ventilation, and make everyone wear PPE. They might be able to get the local government to approve it as a safe workplace because of this, and use it as a deterrent against people taking advantage and not doing a day's work. Then again... if the Kolb factory is so devastated that they cannot continue to produce their aircraft, Bryan would have to go get the EIDL bailout, which would put a fair amount of money into his hands, which becomes a forgivable loan (don't have to pay it back) once he re-hires his employees back 18 months from now. #### Pops ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Log Member Would you be running back to a$15/hr job if unemployment and/or some pandemic bailout deal was paying you that much or more to stay home? I'm guessing that the Kolb factory can arrange their work stations six feet apart, have lots of ventilation, and make everyone wear PPE. They might be able to get the local government to approve it as a safe workplace because of this, and use it as a deterrent against people taking advantage and not doing a day's work.

Then again... if the Kolb factory is so devastated that they cannot continue to produce their aircraft, Bryan would have to go get the EIDL bailout, which would put a fair amount of money into his hands, which becomes a forgivable loan (don't have to pay it back) once he re-hires his employees back 18 months from now.
Not unless his name is on a list of past party donations.

Now out of the verboten area. Is flying the Klob an art, or a science ?

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Is flying the Klob an art, or a science ?
Neither. It is an exercise in ninja zen discipline, where you have to force yourself to stop asking why the elevator and rudder feel right, but the ailerons feel like you left the control lock on.

I would definitely like to have another Kolb in the future, it has some unique things that I like and a couple I didn't like. But I'd go into it with the absolute knowledge that I was drilling off the aileron hinges and installing different ones, before the first flight. And any old free flight model builder would see instantly that it needs a couple of degrees of washout put into the outer one third of the wing. Building it on a flat table is a nice little time-saver, but you pay a price every time you fly it forever and ever. For an "ultralight" with such a low wing loading and thick airfoil, when it quits flying it quits all at once, like a much faster non-sport airplane.

#### n45bm

##### Well-Known Member
Not unless his name is on a list of past party donations.

Now out of the verboten area. Is flying the Klob an art, or a science ?
Seems that flying a Kolb requires a fair amount of strength (and surprise). An airpark neighbor of mine required both in controlling his Kolb on his initial fright...I mean flight. He required a lot of aileron force to fly it at first. He remedied the problem with a very large rudder trim tab. A common problem with Kolb aircraft, he found out. He's still in phase one. At least he can relax his grip on the control stick now.
Bernardo

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Seems that flying a Kolb requires a fair amount of strength (and surprise). An airpark neighbor of mine required both in controlling his Kolb on his initial fright...I mean flight. He required a lot of aileron force to fly it at first. He remedied the problem with a very large rudder trim tab. A common problem with Kolb aircraft, he found out. He's still in phase one. At least he can relax his grip on the control stick now.
Bernardo
How did he find out if the out of rig was in roll or yaw ?

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Out of rig in roll is pretty hard to fix in a Kolb, so it's very common for people to try and fix it with something that is easy (a rudder tab). The rear wing attach is a U-joint, and there's no easy place to shim the trailing edge up or down. The front wing attach is the main spar, and once that hole is drilled it's not easy to shim or move that either. The ailerons go all the way out to the end of the wing, there's no place to stick a beer can tab there either. To fix a roll rigging problem, you're literally cutting and welding.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
He required a lot of aileron force to fly it at first. He remedied the problem with a very large rudder trim tab. A common problem with Kolb aircraft, he found out.
The big problem is that several of the more experienced (and vocal) Kolb owners strongly advocate just living with the high aileron control force. The problem is obvious and is able to be fixed with a simple change to different aileron hinges.

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
My neighbor had a really nice Kolb (closed cabin) Rotax powered taildragger. It never seemed to me that it was right; the angle of incidence vs the tail plane running parallel the boom tube never looked right to me. It’s like the wing and the tail worked unharmomiously together.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The reason for that IMHO dates back to the original design waaay back when.

Homer Kolb used a very short landing gear and a very long tailboom, so that it was a very easy to fly taildragger. The short main gear created a very low "deck angle", which would have required a long takeoff run.

So he jacked up the leading edge of the wing to a funky angle on the fuselage, so that the wing's aerodynamic AoA was where it should be - even though the fuselage axis was at a very low angle. This is what gives the Kolb a strange and "not right" appearance compared to other aircraft.

The leading edge of the horizontal tails is also jacked up above the tailboom next to the base of the fin. There is a gap with lots of daylight between the stabilizer and the tailboom. This of course is to arrive at the right decalage angle between the flying surfaces, regardless of what angle the fuselage is hanging between all of this.

On my Kolb, I installed a very tall main gear leg to raise the AoA even further in the 3 point attitude (in pursuit of the shortest possible takeoff and landing without flaps). This resulted in the 3 point attitude being a little more than the nominal landing stall angle of the wing... meaning that I was never able to fully three-point the airplane because the main gears were too long.

#### billyvray

##### Well-Known Member
My neighbor had a really nice Kolb (closed cabin) Rotax powered taildragger. It never seemed to me that it was right; the angle of incidence vs the tail plane running parallel the boom tube never looked right to me. It’s like the wing and the tail worked unharmomiously together.
tailplane parallet the boom? There should be a bit of incidence on the stabilizer - front up.

#### n45bm

##### Well-Known Member
How did he find out if the out of rig was in roll or yaw ?
I guess by the control inputs he had to use to keep from hitting Terra Firma. Don't know if you can adjust the wing rigging, or if that problem is exacerbated by the propwash or other things being out of whack.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Last time I checked, if your employer who laid you off offers you your job back, you no longer qualify for unemployment benefits. Perhaps he should just tell the unemployment agency the names/SSNs of the employees who are refusing to return to work. As someone mentioned in the comments to the Kitplanes article, unemployment benefits are nowhere near $15/hr. When he says he pays 'less than$15/hr, what is he really saying? Likely, that he's paying minimum wage, which won't even pay for a family major medical insurance policy; much less put food on the table or a roof over a family's heads.

As to qualifying for government benefits only if you're a political donor, I think that ended back on Jan 20 of this year.

#### Kyle Boatright

##### Well-Known Member
Last time I checked, if your employer who laid you off offers you your job back, you no longer qualify for unemployment benefits. Perhaps he should just tell the unemployment agency the names/SSNs of the employees who are refusing to return to work. As someone mentioned in the comments to the Kitplanes article, unemployment benefits are nowhere near $15/hr. When he says he pays 'less than$15/hr, what is he really saying? Likely, that he's paying minimum wage, which won't even pay for a family major medical insurance policy; much less put food on the table or a roof over a family's heads.

As to qualifying for government benefits only if you're a political donor, I think that ended back on Jan 20 of this year.
here in Georgia, federal plus state money for Covid related layoffs has totaled about \$900/wk. That’s available even if you just don’t feel safe going to work.