Dale....once you go Hawk you never go back!I was also taken with the CGS Hawk ultralight that was flying at Paradise City in some pretty strong winds. It had the 28 horse Hirth engine on it and was performing quite well but with all the wind down the field it looked like the takeoff roll was all of 35 feet or so. Landing wasn't much longer.
OK, I would like to hear more about this. I always thought that AoA was superior to airspeed indication for flying. Doesn't the Navy use only AoA to come aboard aircraft carriers?
- AOA for flight control and its lack of usefulness - It works great for driving aural warnings, but a lot of data shows it lags other indicators for general flying;
I sat through this talk by Ed Wischmeyer. He took data with his airplane and others. He had several runs with slow and fast pitch cycles, some where g's stayed close to unity and others where g's went up and down. AOA never lead anything, sometimes it just tracked along with other things like airspeed and stick deflections and g's, while other events it lagged badly. In no case did AOA lead the other flight outputs, and so is tough to use to fly the bird. In a number of cases, like light to moderate chop, it is very noisy and can be misleading. Then he cited a number of other learned papers that came to similar conclusions about how AOA is not terribly useful compared to airspeed and others.OK, I would like to hear more about this. I always thought that AoA was superior to airspeed indication for flying. Doesn't the Navy use only AoA to come aboard aircraft carriers?
Not being a Navy pilot I can't argue. I watched a Navy training film on Youtube that said that pilots are to establish the correct AoA on the downwind leg before turning to final. But, it was an older film so maybe they have changed the procedure. My understanding of AoA first came from Wolfgang Langewiesche's Stick and Rudder.He did talk about when Navy pilots use AOA - it is not used during the break, downwind, or even the circling turn. According to Ed, the pilots look at AOA only on final (all of about 12 seconds long usually), manipulating throttle and stick to hold glideslope and AOA.
Possibly because we don't have instruments for AoA and aren't trained to use them? Anyone who ever stalled and spun while turning at low altitude (I have) would probably welcome an effective AoA stall warning device.Langewiesche said an AoA indicator isn't effective because most pilots don't think about or understand angle of attack anyway.
I don't know what exactly Langweishe said to Bruce Landsburg, but his thoughts on Angle of Attack Indicator usefulness is on page 75 and 76 of his book.Here is an article written about WL. In it he talks about AoA indicators and this is said, "We agreed that airplanes should have angle-of-attack indicators". I find it hard to disregard his opinion.
Billski:Here is the Navy training film I watched. The discussion of AoA and how to fly the pattern starts at 9:50. What it shows doesn't match up with what was presented at SnF.
I saw Ed's presentation in person at a local EAA meeting a couple months ago. I don't recall him mentioning anything about a vane-driven system..Did the SnF speaker discuss the difference between a vane-driven AoA indication (very small dead time in the system) verses the typical E-AB differential pressure system (typical of those common on E-AB) that has more dead time, especially with the typical 1/4” tubing between the wing tip sensing location and the pressure sensor?
His work was with the pitot-static based systems. His data showed one system was well damped but slow to respond (and behind other system responses) and another that was quicker to respond but with a lot of undamped movement. One of his biggest criticisms was that systems he had run were either behind the other airplane responses or were difficult to interpret because the needle was bouncing around, and neither was good guidance for flying the airplane in even mild chop, much less in medium turbulence. He praised AOA for use as a basis for aural warnings, which is how we use the information in jetliners and the like.Billski:
Did the SnF speaker discuss the difference between a vane-driven AoA indication (very small dead time in the system) verses the typical E-AB differential pressure system (typical of those common on E-AB) that has more dead time, especially with the typical 1/4” tubing between the wing tip sensing location and the pressure sensor?