# Stewart Systems Alternates/substitutes

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#### karmarepair

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
3M make the Fastbond in blue/green but I rarely see it advertised. In fact I can't find a retail outlet that carries Fastbond near me at all. Does anyone know who carries it in Canada?

Mark
3M Canada shows it in their product offerings, [3M™ Fastbond™ Contact Adhesive 30NF (3mcanada.ca) ] but I could not find a listing of distributors for it. Home Depot in the US carries it, but in Canada, not so much. There is a similar Lepage low order contact cement that is probably about the same. LePage 1.5L Low Odour Contact Cement | The Home Depot Canada

#### Built2Fly

##### Well-Known Member
I just ordered the green version from RS Hughes. They have many locations, but only in US and Mexico. I plan to use the green glue mixed with the neutral glue so I am not wasting any. It might be lighter tint that way, but hopefully I will be able to see where it goes better.

@Mohawk750, thanks for sharing your tips on how to get a good clean bond.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Some use the clear on open cockpit planes to make the inside look nicer where you can see.

#### Mohawk750

##### Well-Known Member
3M Canada shows it in their product offerings, [3M™ Fastbond™ Contact Adhesive 30NF (3mcanada.ca) ] but I could not find a listing of distributors for it. Home Depot in the US carries it, but in Canada, not so much. There is a similar Lepage low order contact cement that is probably about the same. LePage 1.5L Low Odour Contact Cement | The Home Depot Canada
I live about 40 minutes from Ogdensberg and about an hour from Messena, NY. We used to have occasion to go accross the border sometimes to shop, camping etc. If I can't find in here I can get some when I need it.

The lepage product is interesting and available in small quantity 240ml for testing. I have a box of fabric scraps around here somewhere so I may pick some of that up and do my own testing to see how it holds up. Not a priority at the moment (we're in lock-down here) but when I can get back in the local HD I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.

#### Built2Fly

##### Well-Known Member
@TFF, good idea. I do have some section of cabin that I need to cover. I will save some clear type for that.

#### Orange4sky

I found a great deal on Amazon.ca for neutral. 5 gal for $125 with free shipping. I got the last bucket but they did say, at the time I ordered, more was coming. #### Mohawk750 ##### Well-Known Member I found a great deal on Amazon.ca for neutral. 5 gal for$125 with free shipping. I got the last bucket but they did say, at the time I ordered, more was coming.
Lol! I saw that same deal but it would all shelf life expire before I would need it. You will have enough for 2-3 airplanes I'm sure. I used about 2 gallons to cover my Taylorcraft and it has a huge wing area.

#### karmarepair

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The green 30-NF is what American Champion uses to cover their aircraft. The current Stewart manual does talk about filling the weave with thinned Ekobond as well. Then using the Ekofill
Do I understand correctly that American Champion are using the 3M waterborne contact cement as the first, weave filling coat, on tightened Dacron?
I wonder how they apply it, if so....

#### Mohawk750

##### Well-Known Member
When I covered my T-craft with Stewart System the manual said thin the Ekobond,( same as 3M fastbond) 5-10% with water and brush it on so that's what I did. Then two cross coats of Ekofill sprayed and then paint. I scuffed the suface with scotch brite and wiped sown with a damp cloth between coats. 15 years later it still looks like new. The aircraft is hangard and not flown much by its new owner but it still shows very well.

#### Built2Fly

##### Well-Known Member
@Mohawk750, it seems that someone from Stewart System disputed that EkoBond is same as 3M Fastbond in this thread (Post #19).

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
They may not be the same - but the MSDS sheets indicates they are pretty similar..................maybe even more similar than they apear if they both used IUPAC naming convention.

#### Mohawk750

##### Well-Known Member
@Mohawk750, it seems that someone from Stewart System disputed that EkoBond is same as 3M Fastbond in this thread (Post #19).
Hmmm.....Stewart Systems company owner and technical support representative says it not the same then we have to believe him. However, as and "alternate" adhesive Fastbond does the same job and there seems to be a body of evidence and experience on this board that says it works.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Technically it can’t because it’s certified. It has to be special or people will mix or not use the correct stuff.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Does the color make the difference ? That can make it "not the same".

#### Mohawk750

##### Well-Known Member
Technically it can’t because it’s certified. It has to be special or people will mix or not use the correct stuff.
Agreed, if you are covering a certified aircraft you have to follow the system and use the recommended products to comply with the STC.

The point here is to identify products that can be used as alternates for non-certified aircraft and 3M Fastbond and quality latex paint with or without added TiO seems to be emerging as a low cost alternative to the Stewart Systems STC.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
I understand the points. The glue is a lucky easy crossover. The paint is going to be harder just for the fact SS is certified and had to go down a rabbit hole to get it to pass. Their black is probably custom.

As for top coat, the System Three Polyurethane paint is very much like if not the same as some water borne RC model paints used on fabric. There is another water borne poly used to paint water towers. Looks to have similar qualities. Just don’t know if a custom flex agent needs to be added.

Most of the stuff is easy to test. It’s a one percenter club to do your own system. I doubt there will be any consensus without paying for analysis.

#### karmarepair

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
As for top coat, the System Three Polyurethane paint is very much like if not the same as some water borne RC model paints used on fabric. There is another water borne poly used to paint water towers. Looks to have similar qualities. Just don’t know if a custom flex agent needs to be added.
I'm a fan of the System Three Polyurethane. And no, you will NOT have to use a flex agent with ANY urethane paint; they are all quite flexible, from the Aliphatic PU (Awlgrip, etc) to the single part moisture cures (several marine/yachting sources as well as industrial) to the water borne like System Three.

#### Orange4sky

##### Active Member
For what it’s worth, the 3M 30NF meets the requirements of MIL-A-24179A, Type 1.

And, as you know, because of this the front is not supposed to fall off

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#### Orange4sky

##### Active Member
I have done a bunch of research on the "latex" paints of Sherwin Williams (Weiner dog aero's favourite) and I'm very close to committing on painting with their Pro Industrial Pre-Catalyzed Waterbased Urethane. It has state of the art UV absorbing additives and seems incredibly tough. I compared it to WienerDog Aero's favourite All Surface Enamel HP and it was much harder to remove from the test piece, confirming it's toughness and adhesion strength. Their adhesion test (ASTM D4541) had a result of 1457 PSI and it passed the 1/8" mandrel bend test without cracking or peeling. It has slightly lower gloss: (70+ compared to the all surface @ 80.) The PDS has test results and comparing between other paints, it has very high abrasion, impact and adhesion qualities while being moderately hard (HB). It has a TiO2 content roughly equivalent of Stewart systems EcoPoly but contains two UV absorbing additives as well. It's LEED, CARB and SCAQMD compliant as well. I'm not associated with SW in any way.

It also has excellent resistance to acids, ethanol and motor oil according to their literature which is good news for aircraft use. I'm going to try some autogas on it myself once I have some test pieces done.

Price was comparable to premium latex. I paid \$70 CAD per gallon.

I'll update as I progress.

Pro Industrial Pre-Cat Waterbased Urethane is a single component, high performance, interior or exterior water based acrylic polyurethane. It provides toughness, flexibility, abrasion resistance, and excellent UV resistance. Exterior performance comparable to two component water based urethanes. Features: • Excellent UV resistance• Excellent gloss & color retention• Easy application & cleanup

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