# Steps to scratch build a VW

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#### Little Scrapper

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Nice to see this thread pop up again. It got cold here in Wisconsin and I live in a community with 7 lakes that are local. Having a plumbing business I’m sure you can all guess how busy I’ve been winterizing summer lake homes.

gonna hit a slow period in about 2 weeks I’d say then I’m back at it here on the VW / V Witt project.

Mike

#### akwrencher

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We just drove through Wisconsin a couple weeks ago. Family just across the border in the UP, on a lake. Sure is nice country.

#### samyguy

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How is the motor project going ??

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Waiting on the polish factory for a.quote. they claim to shift the torque curve down 4-500 rpm. Check out the 3 boxer engine links within for curves.

http://vaxell.com/?page_id=1043
Did you ever get a quote from Vaxell for the cam?

#### 103

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Did you ever get a quote from Vaxell for the cam?
Only a response saying they would prepare one. I will follow up.
Matt

#### 103

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Only a response saying they would prepare one. I will follow up.
Matt
Follow up about $320 with shipping. Not sure how much of this is for shipping and logisitcs. (See screenshot attached) I may have tried it had they responded quicker but Scott Casler is shiping my short block back today. PM me an email address if you want me to send you the Polish Factory email. Matt #### Attachments • 36.4 KB Views: 28 #### fly2kads ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Follow up about$320 with shipping. Not sure how much of this is for shipping and logisitcs. (See screenshot attached) I may have tried it had they responded quicker but Scott Casler is shiping my short block back today. PM me an email address if you want me to send you the Polish Factory email.

Matt
Thanks for that. I'll PM you my address. I'd like to keep this info on file for later!

#### jvliet

##### Member
Sorry, I haven't been following this thread last summer... about Wittman's prop drive approach - he wanted to use a cut-down aluminum prop for best performance, so he took a J-3 Cub metal prop and whittled it down to a toothpick in planform. (FV grandfathered Wittman's metal prop but otherwise outlawed metal props in the 1986 engine rules revision). His metal prop was 54 inches in diameter, razor-thin at the tips and (of course) was drilled for the C-65 hub. So he had to attach the prop to the flywheel end of the engine so that it would turn the right way. He wanted a long extension shaft to move this small prop well forward of the engine cylinders, which in turn dictated a cone extension shaft support using a Delco New Departure bearing just behind the prop hub. Arden Hjelle is credited on the prop extension plan as having assisted Steve on the design and fabrication of this prop extension.

Steve said he was turning 3900 RPM with this prop, so I'm sure that his engine was a "very stock" 1600 cc. motor. In the early days of Formula V racing (the "95 cu. in. mini-midget class") the rules called for a strictly stock 1600 cc. VW engine. This included the carburetor! The common downdraft Solex carb from the VW Beetle wasn't suitable for an aircraft installation, but Steve found a sidedraft Solex 32-PHN-1 carb that was used on the VW Variant automobile, which had been imported into Canada (not the USA) in small numbers - perhaps 500 cars. This 32-PHN-1 was thus hard to find; after two years of searching I found one and had it on my own #33 V-Witt for its test flights and first few races in 1987. We had to run constant carb heat otherwise this 32-PHN-1 would ice up. Also, as this float bowl carb was mounted atop the engine, after landing and parking the aircraft, the rising heat of the engine would evaporate the fuel out of the float bowl, making it hard to restart. Wittman solved this problem by adding a screw-in cap bolt in the bowl lid; he would remove the cap bolt and refill the bowl with gas from a squirt bottle to restart the hot engine. BTW the Solex 32-PHN-1 had a 25mm. diameter venturi which IMHO was why it was so prone to icing.

As the FV engine rules had been revised in 1986 to allow any carb. of 32 mm (or less) throat diameter, later in the 1987 racing season I replaced the 32-PHN-1 with an Ellison EFS-2 which worked very well for us. On "Blueberry" we also used the Ellison EFS-2 and were turning 4600 RPM on a 48 in. diameter Peery wood prop.

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Jim, thanks for chiming in! These kinds of historical notes are interesting and informative.

I had been wondering how well the 32-PHN-1 would work for a sport motor, so I appreciate your comments. I have seen a photo of one on a Druine or Jodel, so someone else has been running them overseas. There are probably better alternatives these days, with greater parts availability.

Interesting that you were running RPMs that high. Were the prop tips starting to bark at you at that speed?

#### jvliet

##### Member
Yeah, we would sometimes hear a 'warble' when doing a full power ground runup, interestingly the warble didn't occur in flight. I'm in the process of converting some old Formula V VHS videos to digital and will watch for an example of what we heard. These videos will be posted to YouTube in a few months...

#### Little Scrapper

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I’m sitting with a new VW engine case in my shop from this thread. Would a VW engine be manageable in a Baby Ace. I believe the Pober Pixie was VW power as well as the Cignet and the FRED.

What do you guys think?

#### BJC

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I’m sitting with a new VW engine case in my shop from this thread. Would a VW engine be manageable in a Baby Ace. I believe the Pober Pixie was VW power as well as the Cignet and the FRED.

What do you guys think?
I wouldn't sound right.

BJC

#### Pops

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The Baby Ace/ no
The Pober Pixie/ no, but not quite as bad as the Baby Ace.
The Cignet / Yes Designed for the VW and the best VW powered 2 place airplane out there. As easy to build as the Baby Ace.
The FRED/ Yes.

#### Little Scrapper

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I’m thinking something alternative for it just because. Having a hard time figuring that out I guess. I’m always preaching affordable flying so I’d like to prove that using this airplane. It’s coming together fast so I need to start planning this out. Work is back to normal and I back with some free time so it’s back to all guns blazing.

BJC mentioned sound. I get it, I thought the same thing. I’m ok with it though, I wanna show what affordable flying looks like for the next crop of builders.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
A Baby Ace would be Corvair compatible.
The problem with the VW is as much as one tries, it’s too small for a traditional airplane. Not saying it wouldn’t fly. It would be a disappointment in performance unless that is your dream combo. The biggest VW is still small and has to rev a lot to make the horsepower. Probably in the end it would be pushed too hard with various problems.

#### TFF

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The original Pober Pixi was an attempt for VW and was quickly changed to a A-65. It’s just a modernized Baby Ace. I would put a forlorn Lycoming O-145 on before. Actually im intrigued by it.

A VW 2180 is 133 cid. You are trying to do the same as 170 cid A-65. Corvair is 145 and 164 cid stock.

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#### Little Scrapper

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I just want to do something different and not stupid expensive. I can do a Continental 65 pretty reasonable I think because I know a few of the right people but honestly I really would like something unique.

#### N804RV

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Empty weight of the Baby Ace is 575lbs, max gross is 950. That's almost exactly what my Sonerai II is. The A65 is 65 hp at 2300rpm. The GPAS 1835 will give you about that, albeit at a slight faster RPM.

I'd think that without a starter, a cut-down flywheel, and an Ed Sterba VW specific prop, you'd get close to specs as long as you kept the empty weight down. And, if you absolutely must have it, with the cut-down flywheel and a modified accessory case, you could run a stator type 20 amp alternator for something like the Trig transponder/ads-b set up with only a modest weight penalty.