Sonerai-esque, side-by-side

Discussion in 'Tube and Fabric' started by billyvray, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Apr 30, 2019 #1

    billyvray

    billyvray

    billyvray

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    I am sketching up a 3 view for a two seat, side by side seating, steel tube fuselage aircraft. I am on the fence between metal wings or composite wings. Some thoughts, and questions:

    1) steel tube mainly for durability, crash protection, and it's really not that slow vs other construction if all the itty bitty tabs are minimized
    2) wings - I'm not a big fan of sheet metal construction. I prefer composites for wings and tails. Just an opinion. Likely a Hershey bar or a slight taper. Cantilever, foldable.
    3) SBS seating - Nothing beats a single place but getting kids and newbies up I think SBS is better, and roomy when flying solo. And I just don't fancy the look of the Sonerai 2 front seat area.
    4) Mission profile - I personally love the Sonerai aircraft. They are a tiny bit hotter than I want. I do love the low wing look but need shorter strip capability, LSA range. Envision a Sonerai with a different airfoil, longer wing, maybe narrower chord (higher aspect ratio).
    5) simplicity is key- flat panel canopy (PIK26) like Eaves Skeeter (another inspiration, but maybe a tad fast) - If I can make it look good.

    So, I'm working up a sketch for something like a mix between a Sonerai and an Avid, or Kolb Laser. There just aren't any low wing steel tube aircraft I can find. Composite structure (maybe tubing...) wings with fabric cover. Engine - I'm leaning towards the Suzuki car engines or Yamahas with redrives - I know they are more complex than a Vw, but I'm thinking a bit more prop for slower end 2 person capability.



    I don't own Sonerai plans but would love to have or see a set- particularly the wing/fuse interaction and folding. I may buy a set if no one has any to share.

    I appreciate thoughts on it. Pics added for interest! L-Eaves.jpg Son 02.jpg sonerai  2s single.JPG sonerai 2-1.jpg RCL-1.jpg
     
    poormansairforce and cluttonfred like this.
  2. Apr 30, 2019 #2

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,501
    Likes Received:
    5,456
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
  3. Apr 30, 2019 #3

    billyvray

    billyvray

    billyvray

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    One of them is, but one tower was knocked down a few years ago.

    I like the Atlantis, but it a bit more a of a beast than I'm looking for - thanks though!
     
    BJC likes this.
  4. Apr 30, 2019 #4

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    10,915
    Likes Received:
    2,921
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Stits designed some low wings. You also have the Spezio. Maybe you can scalp some ideas from those. Most planes are bigger than any Sonerai. Stits Playboy is. Although composite wings are fine and dandy, the metric sticking them in a small low wing seems counterintuitive.
     
  5. Apr 30, 2019 #5

    billyvray

    billyvray

    billyvray

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    I hear you, but what I mean by the composite wings is a composite spar (graphite rods, foam shear web), a D tube structure, and foam ribs with cap straps and the whole thing fabric covered.

    To expound a bit: I'm thinking something in the speed ranges almost like the 2 seat ultralights (challengers, Kolbs), not Playboys, RV's, Sonex, Sonerais.
    More like a Zenith 601 class but different materials.
     
  6. Apr 30, 2019 #6

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    6,318
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Location:
    World traveler
    Not the right construction method, but you might want to look at the basic Morgan Aeroworks Cheetah design for inspiration. Side-by-side, 544 kg/1199 lb gross weight, aluminum tube-and-gusset fuselage, aluminum D-tube wings, all covered in fabric and powered by an 80 hp Rotax 912 or Jabiru.

    http://www.morganaeroworks.com.au/cheetah.html

    cheetah5l.png CCB RT 20-12-14 (4).JPG
     
    Jean Crous likes this.
  7. Apr 30, 2019 #7

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    4,469
    Location:
    KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
    There is a fairly complete Stits Playboy project on the San Diego Craigslist for $2999. You probably couldn't build the airframe for thaat in materials only. It has been lowered from 4999 and has not been bought for months. You might be able to slideint here with two grand in cash and get it.

    Did I mention it has an O-290 engine with it?
     
  8. Apr 30, 2019 #8

    PiperCruisin

    PiperCruisin

    PiperCruisin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Idaho
    Or some of the Jodel aircraft.
     
  9. Apr 30, 2019 #9

    billyvray

    billyvray

    billyvray

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    A Jodel 11 or 18 and Falconar 11 have been studied a lot.
    Nice planes.

    I think I’m set on steel tube fuselage though.
     
  10. May 16, 2019 at 6:05 PM #10

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Just an Ohioan
    I'm thinking exactly like you. Anything new?
     
  11. May 16, 2019 at 8:54 PM #11

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    6,318
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Location:
    World traveler
    VB mentioned a Stits Playboy project, the SA-3B Playboy was a side-by-side two-seater with steel-tube fuselage and wood wings. What about tracking down a set of plans and using that as a starting point? Even if you developed your own composite wings that would be a lot easier than starting from scratch. Here are the specs I found for the SA-3B, presumably with something like an O-320, so with a lighter engine like a little Suzuki conversion and careful build you should easily make LSA specs.
    4488319047_fc618252ea_b.jpg
    SA3B Two Place
    Crew: two
    Length: 17 ft 10 in
    Wingspan: 24 ft 2 in
    Height: 6 ft 4 in (1.93 m)
    Wing area: 108 sq ft
    Wing load:
    Empty weight: 795 lb
    Gross weight: 1450 lb
    Baggage: 50 lbs
    Fuel capacity: 36 US gallons
    Powerplant: 150 hp (? kW)
    Takoff: 400ft
    Landing: 450ft
    Stall: 55 mph
    Cruise speed: 135 mph
    Maximum speed: 150 mph
    VNE: 170
    Range:
    Service ceiling:
    Rate of climb: 1,050 ft/min (5.3 m/s)

    Data from: Stits Marketing Poster, Plane & Pilot,
    Canada Aviation Museum, AirVenture Museum
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 9:00 PM
    billyvray likes this.
  12. May 17, 2019 at 4:07 AM #12

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    Location:
    Thunder Bay
    Like Matt said, why not a side-by-side Stits? Or a Skyhopper?
     
  13. May 17, 2019 at 5:11 AM #13

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Just an Ohioan
    The Stits is interesting although I would prefer an aluminum wing. Like a Sonerai. I keep looking at them but I would gladly give up 20 mph on the cruise for a slower stall/landing speed.

    The Cheetah got my attention! Not tube but still a slick plane that floats. My wife could drive that one.
     
  14. May 17, 2019 at 1:19 PM #14

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    10,915
    Likes Received:
    2,921
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    I think the San Diego Air and Space museum has the Ray Stits archives. I think you can get copies of the plans from them. They are probably going to be archival format not large format. Should not matter to a builder.
     
    poormansairforce likes this.
  15. May 17, 2019 at 2:31 PM #15

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Just an Ohioan
    I'm having trouble finding any pics, info about Stits concerning the cockpit width, layout, controls, etc? A Viking 130 would knock almost 100 lbs off of it.
     
  16. May 17, 2019 at 8:58 PM #16

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    6,318
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Location:
    World traveler
    poormansairforce likes this.
  17. May 18, 2019 at 12:57 AM #17

    12notes

    12notes

    12notes

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    425
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    There's also the Stits SA-11 Playmate, which had a sideways facing 3rd seat in the cargo hold.
     
  18. May 18, 2019 at 3:09 AM #18

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    poormansairforce

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Just an Ohioan
    That one is getting a little heavy to meet LSA but it does have folding wings.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white